Best Shower Valve?

NeilBlanchard · 02-02-15, 09:38 PM

Hi,

We are stripping the bathroom to fix a tub leak, and putting in all new finishes. We would like to add a hand shower, and there are two ways to do this (at least): one is to get a set that has a shower valve, and then a separate 3-way diverter to select between the tub spout and the two showers. The second way is to get a typical shower valve that has the spout / shower diverter, and then add a second diverter that toggles between the two showers.

The sales guy recommends the latter. He also recommends Symmons. Is he right, or should I consider one of the other 5 or so brands they also sell.

My main concern is robust longevity and serviceability, and my brother recommends threaded connections that keep the heat of sweated joints away from the valve innards.

From my experience with my kitchen faucet, the differences between a crappy (but expensive) design and a significantly better (and less expensive) unit is not obvious until you install one and use it.

So, what shower valves are best and/or which ones should be avoided?

ecomodded · 02-02-15, 10:19 PM

I bought the standard MOEN PosiTemp Pressure Balancing valve with the original spout knob , then installed a hand wand in place of the shower head.

Works great has a single lever for on off which is also easy to reset to the same position.

The shower wand holder screws into the shower spout so it works as a normal shower head and then a wand with no extra plumbing required.

I was originally going to get fancy and put a shower head at each end of the tub as well as a separate wand but when it came time I got lazy..

What I did do that is kinda cool is when i installed the bathtub spout I raised it high enough that I could sit at the front of the tub with the spout above my shoulder , so when two are in the tub one person does not have the spout to contend with. It looks much nicer being high as well and it has no adverse effects when filling the tub.

NeilBlanchard · 02-03-15, 09:16 PM

Thanks for that - this was suggested, but we have a low flow shower head that we like, and the typical handhelds are not ideal for everyday use.

How long have you had the Moen? Does it have threaded connections?

ecomodded · 02-04-15, 03:21 AM

I just put the new tub and fixtures in last year , Niagara makes a shower wand that is half decent and at 1.5gpm
Earth® Handheld Showerhead by Niagara Conservation

The Moen valve did have the threaded connections ,you can buy it with or without the threads. I wish I bought without the threads , as I did not trust the threads so I took the valve out and soldered the threaded joints together.

My house has copper plumbing and plastic drains which I like. I do not want nor trust the Pex to be safe to drink from or last any longer then any other plastic article does. Garbage in my opinion and expect a failure in 10 or 20 years is my predication.

where2 · 02-05-15, 10:07 PM

Love the Moentrol valve in my shower. I intend to keep it when I R&R the shower surround in the coming months. My Moentrol valve wasn't new when I bought this old house 17 years ago, and it still works fine. The thing I like best about it is that I can dial in the temp I like, then press it straight in to shut off the water. Pull it out part way for lower flow at the same temp, or pull it out all the way for max flow the shower head will provide.

Those hotel showers where the valve only runs full bore and must be cycled from pure cold toward hot to take a shower and back through pure cold again to shut off the water are crazy.

ecomodded · 02-06-15, 12:18 PM

My moen positemp is the basic type that you have to cycle past the cold to engage the hot which has no flow control.
If you move it into position fast it works fine , but its full tilt bogey or nothing.

For economy I set my water tank at a hot temperature that does not require the addition of cold water to make it bearable , so I crank it all the way open fast to skip past the cold water , which does have flow control, but who needs flow control with the first stage cold water.

Your Moentrol valve sounds much nicer to use the Positemp valve.

Daox · 03-19-15, 12:02 PM

I have a love hate relationship with the valves I have in my house. They're both single turn cold to hot, always blasting full kind.

I like that they're very easy to set. I know where to turn the knob to get the temp I like.

The thing I hate is that they both mix in cold water. I have an on demand hot water heater and I can set the max outlet temperature on it. The one valve mixes in considerably more cold water than the other, so I have to turn up the water temp higher than I'd like to accommodate.

Daox · 04-29-15, 01:20 PM

What did you end up going with Neil?

NeilBlanchard · 04-29-15, 07:08 PM

In the end, we just kept the Symmons valve we had, and we are using the 1.5gpm handheld Niagara showerhead. I decided that the complexity of two showerheads and the diverter valve just was not worth it.

I did have to buy all new "outer" parts, though, because the little bronze/white metal bushing on the diverter valve handle broke, and the "chrome" plastic finish was way too manky to clean up. Ditto for the tub spout - I bought a new one, for a whopping $9, or so.

02-02-15, 09:38 PM	#1
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Best Shower Valve? Hi, We are stripping the bathroom to fix a tub leak, and putting in all new finishes. We would like to add a hand shower, and there are two ways to do this (at least): one is to get a set that has a shower valve, and then a separate 3-way diverter to select between the tub spout and the two showers. The second way is to get a typical shower valve that has the spout / shower diverter, and then add a second diverter that toggles between the two showers. The sales guy recommends the latter. He also recommends Symmons. Is he right, or should I consider one of the other 5 or so brands they also sell. My main concern is robust longevity and serviceability, and my brother recommends threaded connections that keep the heat of sweated joints away from the valve innards. From my experience with my kitchen faucet, the differences between a crappy (but expensive) design and a significantly better (and less expensive) unit is not obvious until you install one and use it. So, what shower valves are best and/or which ones should be avoided?

02-02-15, 10:19 PM	#2
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	I bought the standard MOEN PosiTemp Pressure Balancing valve with the original spout knob , then installed a hand wand in place of the shower head. Works great has a single lever for on off which is also easy to reset to the same position. The shower wand holder screws into the shower spout so it works as a normal shower head and then a wand with no extra plumbing required. I was originally going to get fancy and put a shower head at each end of the tub as well as a separate wand but when it came time I got lazy.. What I did do that is kinda cool is when i installed the bathtub spout I raised it high enough that I could sit at the front of the tub with the spout above my shoulder , so when two are in the tub one person does not have the spout to contend with. It looks much nicer being high as well and it has no adverse effects when filling the tub. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-04-15, 03:21 AM	#4
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	I just put the new tub and fixtures in last year , Niagara makes a shower wand that is half decent and at 1.5gpm Earth® Handheld Showerhead by Niagara Conservation The Moen valve did have the threaded connections ,you can buy it with or without the threads. I wish I bought without the threads , as I did not trust the threads so I took the valve out and soldered the threaded joints together. My house has copper plumbing and plastic drains which I like. I do not want nor trust the Pex to be safe to drink from or last any longer then any other plastic article does. Garbage in my opinion and expect a failure in 10 or 20 years is my predication. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-06-15, 12:18 PM	#6
ecomodded Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Vancouver Island,Canada. Posts: 1,037 Thanks: 116 Thanked 100 Times in 87 Posts	My moen positemp is the basic type that you have to cycle past the cold to engage the hot which has no flow control. If you move it into position fast it works fine , but its full tilt bogey or nothing. For economy I set my water tank at a hot temperature that does not require the addition of cold water to make it bearable , so I crank it all the way open fast to skip past the cold water , which does have flow control, but who needs flow control with the first stage cold water. Your Moentrol valve sounds much nicer to use the Positemp valve. __________________ To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

03-19-15, 12:02 PM	#7
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I have a love hate relationship with the valves I have in my house. They're both single turn cold to hot, always blasting full kind. I like that they're very easy to set. I know where to turn the knob to get the temp I like. The thing I hate is that they both mix in cold water. I have an on demand hot water heater and I can set the max outlet temperature on it. The one valve mixes in considerably more cold water than the other, so I have to turn up the water temp higher than I'd like to accommodate. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-03-15, 09:16 PM	#3
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Thanks for that - this was suggested, but we have a low flow shower head that we like, and the typical handhelds are not ideal for everyday use. How long have you had the Moen? Does it have threaded connections?

02-05-15, 10:07 PM	#5
where2 DIY Geek Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 401 Thanks: 74 Thanked 83 Times in 73 Posts	Love the Moentrol valve in my shower. I intend to keep it when I R&R the shower surround in the coming months. My Moentrol valve wasn't new when I bought this old house 17 years ago, and it still works fine. The thing I like best about it is that I can dial in the temp I like, then press it straight in to shut off the water. Pull it out part way for lower flow at the same temp, or pull it out all the way for max flow the shower head will provide. Those hotel showers where the valve only runs full bore and must be cycled from pure cold toward hot to take a shower and back through pure cold again to shut off the water are crazy.

04-29-15, 01:20 PM	#8
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	What did you end up going with Neil? __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

04-29-15, 07:08 PM	#9
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	In the end, we just kept the Symmons valve we had, and we are using the 1.5gpm handheld Niagara showerhead. I decided that the complexity of two showerheads and the diverter valve just was not worth it. I did have to buy all new "outer" parts, though, because the little bronze/white metal bushing on the diverter valve handle broke, and the "chrome" plastic finish was way too manky to clean up. Ditto for the tub spout - I bought a new one, for a whopping $9, or so.