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Old 10-03-09, 07:29 PM   #1
Xringer
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Default Sanyo 24KHS72 AC/HP DIY install project

I've been reading about this gizmo for about a year now, and I'm impressed.
24KHS72 - Sanyo 24,200 BTU Heat Pump Air Conditioner Kit

I've placed my order and it should be here in a few weeks.
In the mean time, I need to get ready with some tools and education.

I've already picked out the location for the outdoor unit and built the pad.
Moved the water tap down the wall a few feet, leaving a nice hole for the 230VAC power.



As you can see from this chart:

Woburn Weather - Massachusetts - Average Temperatures and Rainfall

The mean temperature is only 25 deg F. during our coldest month of the year.
So, if this thing will put out adequate BTUhs of heat when it's 17degs out,
we should be warm as toast this winter.
(They say, it will do 70% at Zero degrees F. That's 20,300 BTUh)!
I'm going find out if this is true, if it gets that cold this winter!

I'll post more as I go along.

Cheers,
Rich

Edit: Adding informative charts.





Here's the 'After' picture.. So you won't have to read all these pages..



Flow chart:


Inside unit:


Outdoor unit:


Last edited by Xringer; 11-28-09 at 01:46 PM.. Reason: Adding chart.. and now some pics of diagrams
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Old 10-03-09, 07:49 PM   #2
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I found this page a while back.. It has lot of pictures

MINI SPLIT INSTALLATION GUIDE - KINGERSONS.COM

That depict the basic Mini-Split install. This will be used with the Sanyo install manual
to give me a better idea of what this job entails.
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Old 10-03-09, 08:12 PM   #3
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Very cool! I see the COP is rated at 3.4. Not too shabby.

I have a question about the placement of the unit. Where is it in relation to the house? North side of your house out of the sun? South side for better heating in the winter?
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Last edited by Daox; 10-03-09 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 10-03-09, 09:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Very cool! I see the COP is rated at 3.4. Not too shabby.

I have a question about the placement of the unit. Where is it in relation to the house? North side of your house out of the sun? South side for better heating in the winter?
It's on the east side of the house. But, the garage is about 10 feet away
from the house. So, the compressor unit will be about 8 feet from the garage,
which is blocking most of the early morning sun.
The sun is going to hit the pad between (approx) 9:30 & 11:30 AM.
(9:30 AM, that's about the time old retired guys want to call for heat)..

As a side project, I've purchased some 1.25" PVC pipe (40 feet).
The pipe will be used to build a support for a small snow roof for the outdoor unit.
It's job will be to keep snow fall from building up on the 3x4' pad.
Since it's going to be a portable (it will look like a table with a sloped top),
I might be able to use it as a sun shield during the summer cooling months..
However, there are very few summer days around here when we use the AC until afternoon, When the east side is out of the sun.
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Old 10-03-09, 10:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Very cool! I see the COP is rated at 3.4. Not too shabby.
I recall looking at that COP number when I was researching around.
http://www.ci.richland.wa.us/RICHLAN...s%20041009.xls

According to what I've found, the COP is 3.4 when you are running it full bore.

29,000 BTUh, burning 2,490 watts gives you a 3.4 COP.
But, after things have warmed up and the unit is just coasting along at, say,
4,400 BTU, only burning 290 watts, you get a COP of 4.4

Maybe it's good this thing is a tad over-sized.?.

We have added a bunch of insulation in the past year, and I'm really looking
forward to seeing if I can actually heat my home using 290 watts!! LOL!!
At least on the mild days..

Last edited by Xringer; 10-31-09 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: spellin errors
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Old 10-05-09, 03:48 PM   #6
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Default Declining temperature, declining COP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post

According to what I've found, the COP is 3.4 when you are running it full bore.

29,000 BTUh, burning 2,490 watts gives you a 3.4 COP.
But, after things have warmed up and the unit is just coasting along at, say,
4,400 BTU, only burning 290 watts, you get a COP of 4.4

Maybe it's good this thing is a tad over-sided.?.

We have added a bunch of insulation in the past year, and I'm really looking
forward to seeing if I can actually heat my home using 290 watts!! LOL!!
At least on the mild days..
Hey Rich,

I built a small water-in, water-out heat pump and did various test, with this one being a good example: (full thread here)


The light blue line that jumps all over the place is the COP for the five minute period just measured. To make it fit on the graph, I multiplied COP time 10, so if it says that cop is 35, it's actually 3.5.

I'm not exactly sure why it's so jumpy, but there is a definite trendline that can be drawn through the COP values, that is very close to parallel to the temperature of the water coming into the system. Which makes sense when you think of it.

So, when as the outside air temperature gets colder, the COP of our Air-Source Heat Pumps will most surely, also decline.

So this all tells me that there's a point, when another system, like in you case, a hydronic heating system, will be cheaper to operate.

I don't know if you're set up to be able to measure the power that is being drawn by your heat pump, but it would be interesting to know that information.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker

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Old 10-03-09, 10:10 PM   #7
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Good luck with your new unit.

I bought a 9,000 BTU version (12,000 BTU heating) of the Sanyo last year, to carry me through my GSHP project.

The unit I got has a lower HSPF rating than yours, but still it really works great.

Most of the time, I can't even tell that it's running.

The thermostat is very accurate. You set it for the temperature you want, like 68 for instance, and the house goes to 68 and stays there, no temperature swings like my central air gas furnace did.

Most comfortable heat I've ever had.

Best regards,

-AC_Hacker

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 10-04-09 at 12:04 AM..
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Old 10-07-09, 02:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
Good luck with your new unit.

I bought a 9,000 BTU version (12,000 BTU heating) of the Sanyo last year, to carry me through my GSHP project.

-AC_Hacker
How about giving us a little review on it's cold weather operation?
I'm interested in hearing how well it worked in the 20 to 40 degree range.
Since that's what we see around here on a typical winters day..
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Old 10-04-09, 09:05 AM   #9
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From what I've been able to glean, Sanyo is one of the better brand names (for ductless).
And, I was able to get very familiar with the Sanyo 24KLS72 AC-only unit that we had installed at work.
It's a super AC and like you said, 'can't even tell that it's running'..

After 30+ years of waking up to the baseboard pipes pinging at night, on our
forced-hot-water-by-oil system, a reduction in noise level is most welcome!

~~~

The 20' line-set that comes with the kit I'm getting might be a bit too long.
I found out that the minimum length is 10', so I'm thinking about cutting
them down to around 13 to 16 feet on install day.

After seeing the very poor job our HVAC guys at work did on the 24KLS72
line-set install, I'm thinking of buying my own Sears flare tool and DIY.
Sears.com

I see the manual refers to a 'special R410A flare tool' and "RIGID",
but there just isn't enough info about which tool I need.
Sears has a bunch of them, but I need some tips on what to look for..

Thanks,
Rich

Edit:
It seems I will need a 37 degree flare kit.?. Summit SUM-900311 - Summit Racing® 37 Degree Flare Tool Sets - Overview - SummitRacing.com
Not too cheap looking. Everything else I found cost way too much.

I saw where one guy converted his 45 deg to a 37 deg in his shop..

Last edited by Xringer; 10-04-09 at 10:49 AM..
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Old 10-04-09, 11:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
After seeing the very poor job our HVAC guys at work did on the 24KLS72
line-set install, I'm thinking of buying my own Sears flare tool and DIY.
Sears.com

I see the manual refers to a 'special R410A flare tool' and "RIGID",
but there just isn't enough info about which tool I need.
Sears has a bunch of them, but I need some tips on what to look for..

Thanks,
Rich
Rich,

As a disclaimer:

(* I am not a refrigeration technician. If you do the work yourself, you're voiding your warantee. *)

But I did mine myself and it's working just great.

I didn't change my lineset, so you will need to verify that the R-410a flare fitting is not substantially different from other flare fittings. I do think it has a different diameter but you should still be able to use common flare tools.

Will you be doing the entire install yourself?

I installed mine, and I can tell you what I did, if you are interested...

Regards,

-AC_Hacker
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