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#1 |
Helper EcoRenovator
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pensacola Florida
Posts: 38
Thanks: 17
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
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![]() I see where Copeland is now making an inverter compressor.
Copeland Scroll Variable Speed Technology |
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#2 |
Less usage=Cheaper bills
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 940
Thanks: 41
Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts
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![]() It's been in production for a year or two, I think, now. That compressor is in the Carrier Greenspeed line. The product datasheet looks pretty good, although even with that insanely expensive heat pump, the operational costs with averagish electrical prices in my area (10.6c/kwh) and low natural gas prices(.65c/therm) in my area where it is common to have multiple weeks that have overnight lows below 10 degrees leaves it as a more expensive operational cost for me. It seems that a small Fujitsu 12k BTU mini-split used at my house would be a better use of my money and used when it is not too frigid out when it is still within the balance point to where it can produce enough heat would be a lower operational cost overall and used during the summer with its superior SEER would be a better choice, especially with a lower cost to buy the unit and the fact that with the right equipment and knowledge, I could install myself or get one of my HVAC buddies to do the commissioning of the unit for a good price.
With all that said, I think that it is a good unit if you in a marginally cold area but not too cold where natural gas is more expensive or electricity is very cheap and where A/C usage is also high so the unit gets a good run for its money. I still think that reducing heating and cooling loads and using a step or two cheaper equipment would be a better use of money. This technology seems to be aimed at the spendy early adopter level of consumers. |
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#3 |
Supreme EcoRenovator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts
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![]() Sounds like you found a way to talk yourself out of it...or into it... hard to tell which...
-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... |
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#4 |
Less usage=Cheaper bills
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 940
Thanks: 41
Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts
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![]() It's too expensive IMHO for it to make sense for more people. If anything it has convinced me that going the mini-split route is a better alternative because of its lower cost and higher efficiency versus this more expensive central solution. My house layout makes a single head unit into a solution that could keep the whole house cool in the summer and the most important areas of the house warmest in the cold seasons.
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#5 |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
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![]() Ok, $.65/therm (100,000 btu) is about 3m3 and we pay about $.20/m3 so about the same as you would. BUT, when you add in all the transport charges and taxes, what is the actual bill? For us it is about $.35/m3 ($1/therm). I think the HP compares favourably with 95% gas and electricity at $.11kwh
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#6 |
Less usage=Cheaper bills
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 940
Thanks: 41
Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts
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![]() $33.76 subtract the $8 basic charge and $2.50 city franchise fee.
$23.76 for gas divided by 35 therms = $.66 cents per therm last month. "Cost of gas" is $.48629/THM. ![]() For what it's worth, my gas furnace is rated at 76% efficient. Old natural draft thing. 2100sq ft house. December 2010 was over twice this bill at a hair under $70, but then again it was colder and air sealing hadn't happened yet. Last edited by MN Renovator; 01-16-13 at 06:59 AM.. |
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#7 |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 158 Times in 150 Posts
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![]() Given how much gas you use, there would be no payback in going with a HP but if it was a new install, it might be a different issue.
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#8 |
Less usage=Cheaper bills
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 940
Thanks: 41
Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts
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![]() That's true. If I didn't have any gas appliances now, I could skip the $126 of yearly fees and the furnace cost would be replaced by a lower cost air handler that would also provide the best COP for the heat pump. Instead for my current setup I'm better off augmenting the current system with a cheaper efficient mini-split heat pump and using the less efficient furnace for heating when it is cheaper to heat with the heat pump versus the furnace. It would be especially cheaper if I used the mini-split heat pump to heat just the bedroom and leave the rest of the house at a minimal temperature. Setup the projector in the bedroom for the movies/tv/video games, etc and I'd be all set. I don't mind cooking in a colder kitchen.
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#9 | |
Master EcoRenovator
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 543
Thanks: 6
Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts
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![]() Quote:
In many kitchens , the stove puts out enough heat to warm the room , when cooking . I put a cheapy 12,000 BTU 13 SEER Chi-Com heat pump - A/C in our living room / dining room , this summer . Did the install with the help of Wifey , youngest boy and The Man Upstairs . I REALLY like the mini split . With the help of window shakers in several other rooms , I was able to minimize the usage of the central unit . And lower the electric bill . When I sit watching TV , the mini split is much quitter than listening to the central unit . The sound of Wifey's co-co clock is louder than the mini split . And I mean , the sound of it ticking , not the sound of it co-coing . I should have looked at the cost of a higher SEER unit that would have qualified for the government subsidy vs. the unit I bought . Live and learn . I have only used the heat mode once and it seemed to work fine with outside temp at 41 degrees F . Before that I had only played with it . Central furnace is a 2 stage 92% natural gas unit . So , I am not too bad off using it as supplemental heat . If I am happy using the HP for heat in milder weather . God bless Wyr |
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