Rim / band joist insulation - Page 2

S-F · 10-12-11, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryland

you never get all the foam out of them and they are fussy about tank temp.

This is all true in my experience. I have had great luck with heating them up for a day or so. The 600 board Ft. kit I used in my basement I heated for several days. That being said, I've had pretty good luck with the 2 part kits. But if bringing in the high density spray foam guys was the same price or only a little more I'd jump right on that. Spray foam sucks. I'm glad I don't have to work with it too much.

creeky · 10-12-11, 07:18 PM

hi rav. thx for the video. it was actually better than the one I saw.

I'm looking for a 600 2part kit to do my bunkhouse ceiling. The roof is metal and when it rains it's so loud it drowns out the TV.

Anybody care to add to S-Fs tip on getting the tanks warm? Or other tips.

S-F, was the smell really bad?

hamsterpower · 10-12-11, 08:05 PM

I have now used 3 of the 600 sf spray foam kits. Each kit covered very close to what I expected. About one room per kit in my case. Two exterior walls, floor to ceiling 2-3" thick (about 200sf x 3" = 600sf x1"). I am very happy with the results. Warming the tanks is important, 75-85 degrees F for at least 24 hours. A warm summer day is best. Last time I needed no artificial heating. You need plenty of fresh air and a good respirator. Still expect a nasty hangover headache the next day. There is some smell but I did not find it overpowering. In-fact until I used a tank in the attic (poor ventilation) I didn't really notice the smell.
Other tips: keep a wet rag handy, be ready to change tips as needed, wear a gloves and long pants.

The foam in these kits is not nearly as bad as the little cans. This foam cures in 45 seconds and dries brittle. You can pull it right off skin and most other surfaces once cured.

I will go this route for each of my remaining rooms as I can.

warmwxrules · 11-16-11, 03:36 PM

I watch my buddy P Allen Smith on PBS every once in awhile and I noticed when he spray foamed his "house" (more like a mansion) he used a soy based spray. Not sure how that stuff holds up or the price ($$$?), but you would think it would be a little greener. I have my rim joists just wedged with faced insulation, but plan on just insulating right in front of it with another layer when I build walls down there (build the walls from floor to ceiling). I only use that spray foam when I have to.

strider3700 · 11-16-11, 04:21 PM

I actually saw a holmes on homes where he figured that spray foam of the rim joists and of foundation walls on the inside would become required by code "soon". Apparently putting rigid against the concrete on the inside wasn't good enough to stop moisture from condensing and leads to mold eventually.

If I was building new I'd definitely spray but man is it pricey to do an entire house that way.

warmwxrules · 11-16-11, 09:42 PM

I plan on framing walls and leaving a 1/2 inch gap between the the new wall and the basement wall. Then I will just fill the new walls with faced batts. Right now there is nothing and I'm guessing a lot of money is just going right out those cinder blocks.

S-F · 11-17-11, 06:30 AM

The soy based foam is more expensive.

MN Renovator · 11-19-11, 11:53 AM

How much is a 600SF 2-part spray foam kit? Can these tanks be lowered into a 5 gallon bucket of hot water? When I needed to empty a 20lb propane tank I used the hottest water I could get out of the sink filled into a 5 gallon bucket and set the propane tank on top(since its too big to fit inside). You could use a 5 gallon bucket to get the final bit of foam out. If the last 1/4 or so was in there and if the cans can fit in 5 gallon buckets, boil some water ahead of time and when the cans start getting to cold to flow then drop the tanks in the buckets and keep going. I do the same thing when charging A/C systems, the can gets too cold for there to be pressure for the stuff to come out but dunk it in hot water and out it comes. Keep in mind you'll be putting it in boiling water but the tanks will probably be next to frozen by then so the temperature will equalize to something reasonable fast and you won't have to waste the foam.

S-F · 11-19-11, 11:58 AM

I don't know what the kit costs. I have a contractors account so the prices are different. Just look at the price on the page and add $50 or so for shipping. The hot water idea isn't necessary. Just get them good and HOT for a couple days. Maybe three days. They won't cool down in the time it takes to spray the foam. It would take hours for them to cool down in a New England winter. I've experimented with the smaller 200' kits. The 600' kits will obviously keep their heat longer as there is smaller foam to surface area ratio.

MN Renovator · 11-19-11, 12:56 PM

I thought the reason why people weren't getting the foam out was because the expansion of the pressurized propellant in the cans would get cold when expanding causing their pressure to diminish and then you don't get it all out. If you heat the cans by immersing them in water you can fight the expansion cooling and get more out.

If that isn't why people aren't getting it all out, then what is keeping them from mostly emptying the tanks? There are thread post upon thread post of people saying they didn't get the full amount out.

10-12-11, 08:05 PM	#13
hamsterpower Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 142 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	Re: 2 part spray foam kits I have now used 3 of the 600 sf spray foam kits. Each kit covered very close to what I expected. About one room per kit in my case. Two exterior walls, floor to ceiling 2-3" thick (about 200sf x 3" = 600sf x1"). I am very happy with the results. Warming the tanks is important, 75-85 degrees F for at least 24 hours. A warm summer day is best. Last time I needed no artificial heating. You need plenty of fresh air and a good respirator. Still expect a nasty hangover headache the next day. There is some smell but I did not find it overpowering. In-fact until I used a tank in the attic (poor ventilation) I didn't really notice the smell. Other tips: keep a wet rag handy, be ready to change tips as needed, wear a gloves and long pants. The foam in these kits is not nearly as bad as the little cans. This foam cures in 45 seconds and dries brittle. You can pull it right off skin and most other surfaces once cured. I will go this route for each of my remaining rooms as I can.

10-12-11, 07:18 PM	#12
creeky Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: a field somewhere Posts: 304 Thanks: 64 Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts	hi rav. thx for the video. it was actually better than the one I saw. I'm looking for a 600 2part kit to do my bunkhouse ceiling. The roof is metal and when it rains it's so loud it drowns out the TV. Anybody care to add to S-Fs tip on getting the tanks warm? Or other tips. S-F, was the smell really bad?

11-16-11, 03:36 PM	#14
warmwxrules Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: La Crosse, WI Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I watch my buddy P Allen Smith on PBS every once in awhile and I noticed when he spray foamed his "house" (more like a mansion) he used a soy based spray. Not sure how that stuff holds up or the price ($$$?), but you would think it would be a little greener. I have my rim joists just wedged with faced insulation, but plan on just insulating right in front of it with another layer when I build walls down there (build the walls from floor to ceiling). I only use that spray foam when I have to.

11-16-11, 04:21 PM	#15
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	I actually saw a holmes on homes where he figured that spray foam of the rim joists and of foundation walls on the inside would become required by code "soon". Apparently putting rigid against the concrete on the inside wasn't good enough to stop moisture from condensing and leads to mold eventually. If I was building new I'd definitely spray but man is it pricey to do an entire house that way.

11-16-11, 09:42 PM	#16
warmwxrules Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: La Crosse, WI Posts: 78 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I plan on framing walls and leaving a 1/2 inch gap between the the new wall and the basement wall. Then I will just fill the new walls with faced batts. Right now there is nothing and I'm guessing a lot of money is just going right out those cinder blocks.

11-17-11, 06:30 AM	#17
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	The soy based foam is more expensive.

11-19-11, 11:53 AM	#18
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 940 Thanks: 41 Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts	How much is a 600SF 2-part spray foam kit? Can these tanks be lowered into a 5 gallon bucket of hot water? When I needed to empty a 20lb propane tank I used the hottest water I could get out of the sink filled into a 5 gallon bucket and set the propane tank on top(since its too big to fit inside). You could use a 5 gallon bucket to get the final bit of foam out. If the last 1/4 or so was in there and if the cans can fit in 5 gallon buckets, boil some water ahead of time and when the cans start getting to cold to flow then drop the tanks in the buckets and keep going. I do the same thing when charging A/C systems, the can gets too cold for there to be pressure for the stuff to come out but dunk it in hot water and out it comes. Keep in mind you'll be putting it in boiling water but the tanks will probably be next to frozen by then so the temperature will equalize to something reasonable fast and you won't have to waste the foam.

11-19-11, 11:58 AM	#19
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	I don't know what the kit costs. I have a contractors account so the prices are different. Just look at the price on the page and add $50 or so for shipping. The hot water idea isn't necessary. Just get them good and HOT for a couple days. Maybe three days. They won't cool down in the time it takes to spray the foam. It would take hours for them to cool down in a New England winter. I've experimented with the smaller 200' kits. The 600' kits will obviously keep their heat longer as there is smaller foam to surface area ratio.

11-19-11, 12:56 PM	#20
MN Renovator Less usage=Cheaper bills Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 940 Thanks: 41 Thanked 117 Times in 91 Posts	I thought the reason why people weren't getting the foam out was because the expansion of the pressurized propellant in the cans would get cold when expanding causing their pressure to diminish and then you don't get it all out. If you heat the cans by immersing them in water you can fight the expansion cooling and get more out. If that isn't why people aren't getting it all out, then what is keeping them from mostly emptying the tanks? There are thread post upon thread post of people saying they didn't get the full amount out.