10-03-11, 08:42 AM | #1 |
Helper EcoRenovator
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Sanyo Eco C02 Heat Pump
Any ideas when this is coming to the US? Or.. any ideas how someone might go about buying and installing this? It looks amazingly more efficient than my oil burner radiator heater and electric resistance water heater. With the C02 refrigerant in there it can operate down to about -20F I think it said. It hardly ever touches zero degree's Fahrenheit here so I can imagine this replacing my oil heater and my electric heater. Anyone else excited about this heat pump?
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10-03-11, 08:12 PM | #2 | ||
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From what I understand, CO2 need to be under much higher pressure for the phase-change to happen where it should, so the components will need to be re-designed to withstand the higher pressures. This could take some time. Since the US prioritizes war over development of more efficient heating devices, we will have to wait until Asian engineering to deliver the products. Check this out: Quote:
...here is another interesting reference. ...and also here. -AC_Hacker
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10-04-11, 02:57 PM | #3 |
Helper EcoRenovator
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Yeah the R744 looks excellent. I really hope that the refrigerant producers of America don't stop it. Thanks for the info AC_Hacker. Really good stuff you dug up!
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10-05-11, 09:39 AM | #4 |
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Even though CO2 cannot be patented if a chemical company creates a proprietary mix of say 90% CO2 and 10% other gases that will change the properties they could patent that. So all they would have to do is add an oil and a gas that is stable at higher pressures then market it as greener technology.
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10-05-11, 09:49 AM | #5 |
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Good point Phantom. Is there anything stopping people from buying the Sanyo Eco heat pump and installing it here? From what the site says it is a contained system, no hvac service tech required. Sanyo CO2 ECO Heat Pump Granted you would still need a plumber possibly to help you hook it up.
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10-05-11, 01:31 PM | #6 |
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How much is €8,184.15 in devalued USDs?
When they went to R410A at 500 PSI, they seem to have gotten away with using the older hardware. But, the pressure of a tank of CO2 at room temperature is about 900 PSI. I'll bet there is a whole different thickness of hardware needed for CO2. Not gonna be cheap.. |
10-05-11, 02:47 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
I did a search on this product and found that it is available in UK, Denmark, and possibly other Scandinavian countries. Apparently not in the US at this time. The price quoted in UK is:
At first glance, the performance figures look pretty fair... COP when outside temp is 7C (45F) = 3.1 COP when outside temp is -15C (5F) = 1.8 COP when outside temp is -20C (-4F) = 1.6 But then, check this out: (NOTE: these figures are when incoming water temp = 30C (86F) and output temp is 50C (122F)) (** Who on this blog has winter cold water temp of 86F? **) But one of the most interesting things about this technology is that it is capable of directly producing water at temperatures of 65C (149F). Although this is a bit to the low side for existing standard hydronic radiators, it is within the realm of reality. Conventional vapor-compression machines were pretty much limited to around 50C (122F) which yielded underwhelming performance when used with previous radiating devices... but worked out well when radiant areas were very large, for instance making the entire floor a radiator. But then there is the Eco part: The earth is, after all, priceless. -AC_Hacker
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10-05-11, 07:20 PM | #8 |
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That pricing scheme doesn't make much sense. Neither do the testing methods. If you measured the COP of a GSHP with 85 degree incoming water imagine what your COP would be..... Higher than the 3.whatever they mention. Rumor around town has it that Mitsubishi is making a mini split that "is as efficient at 0 as it is at 30 degrees" and it doesn't cost 10 K.
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10-06-11, 01:08 AM | #9 | |
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But I'm afraid that, "is as efficient at 0 as it is at 30 degrees" is really just hyperbolic sales talk. Such a statement is in violation of Carnot's efficiency theorem. Don't let such statements persuade you to buy a Mitsubishi, and don't let such statement's dissuade you either... because Mitsubishi is well respected. I don't know why salesmen would utter such rubbish, when such a good product should be easy to sell... -AC_Hacker
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10-06-11, 02:00 PM | #10 | |
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