Propane (R-290) for heat pumps?

[Xringer]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

That's what I'm doing now with my new temp controller.

-AC_Hacker

It just occurred to me, those open relays on my boiler and the contacts
on the light switches in the basement should be swapped out for gas tight.
Just in case..

My brand new IOTA automatic change-over relays are inside pretty tight
plastic boxes.. Maybe some sealing would work for them..?.



Dang, there is a lot to this safety stuff..

[Geo NR Gee]

What are the changeover boxes for?

[Xringer]

Originally Posted by braebyrn

What are the changeover boxes for?

When the inverter comes on-line, the IOTA boxes allow the loads to be
fed from the inverter.. Automatically.. (If the 15A breaker is closed).

I guess this job could be done using SSRs, but very carefully..

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Xringer

Dang, there is a lot to this safety stuff..

Yeah, when you think this stuff through, remember that propane is heavier than air and tends to sink to the lowest level, where it can collect.

Boat owners who may want to cook with gas are required to become aware of this.

I was mucking about with propane (re-filling B-B-Que gas cylinders) and some propane gas got away from me, I was outside near my outside basement stairs, and the little propane cloud went right down into the below-grade stairs (stopped by the door) and there the little cloud stayed...

I went inside the house, got a box fan, turned it on 'high' and blew the propane cloud away.

So the phrase 'tends to sink to the lowest level' is not empty words, it's really the way it works.

Eventually, due to molecular activity, the propane will become intermixed with air and dissipate.

I guess I'm telling you all this because if you are serious enough to consider changing to gas proof switches and SSRs to guard against ignition, an automatic venting system (induction motor or brushless DC fan, of course) accompanied by a gas sensor (located near the floor) should be part of the system, too.

-AC_Hacker

[Xringer]

I've tried one of those gas alarms. It turns out that a cat litter box in the area sets it off.
And there was one theory that pets breaking wind would cause a false alarm.
Amazon.com: Kidde KN-COEG-3 Nighthawk Plug-In Carbon Monoxide and Explosive Gas Alarm


I've known about propane being heavy for years. It's one of the things that worries
me about having propane (for soldering copper) in my basement.
I know that a major leak could be a disaster, since my oil burner is the absolutely perfect Propane detonator.
(AKA 'basement-bomb').

That oil burner is the main reason not to add any more propane leak risk to what we already have..

I think moving those little propane and MAPP bottles out to the detached garage might be a good idea..
I think the rust factor might even be less than down in the basement..

[Geo NR Gee]

ok, makes sense to put a alarm, sensor for gas evacuation, and blower. I wonder if the alarms detect the propane or the smelly additive? If the filter/dryer removes the smell then..........

[Xringer]

I'm pretty sure they detect flammable gas, like Methane, cat farts & etc.

I just got my supply of small bottles together to move to storage out of the house.
Found a little gizmo I can use to clean out that old leftover 20 pound tank.
1 lb propane bottle refill adapter
It can be used to refill the empties.

[ThomSjay]

My house has natural gas piped in (ie, a continuous supply) which is used for the furnace and the water heater. It even was used for a stand-alone gas fireplace but that has been removed. Ten years ago I relocated the water heater and did the plumbing and exhaust myself, making sure of good connection with soapy water.

One of the branches of the company that I work, for hauls liquid propane, and I get to work on the trailers...yes, even torches and welding. The main thing is to make sure that there are no leaks. With the "stink" added it's easy to tell if there is a leak. But remember too, that the ratio of fuel and air has to be right before there is a problem. A slight stink is OK (just be aware), but trapped, it becomes a large stink. The propane is hauled in bulk to other locations, and from there is distributed by smaller trucks to homes, etc. as a heating fuel. The storage tank would be outside; the propane furnace is inside.

For indoor use of an AC unit, I would tend to think that if there is was leak, it would be a slow one which is easy to vent....and there is not a continuous supply.

[Xringer]

I would be a bit worried if I was using split HP unit (with propane) in my basement.
Min-splits use compression flare fittings. Which might not be the greatest thing for safeness.

A few pounds of R290 leaking out of the indoor side overnight, with the timer turning
on the oil burner at 6AM, could be very bad..

The burner sucks air out of the basement at a good rate.
The air input is about 12" off the floor, So, there is a good chance it will start
off sounding like a rocket launch. Once the tin smoke pipes are blown off the back
of the boiler, and flames start shooting out.. All bets are off..
The Fuel-Air mix is very likely to hit critical mass..


I often wonder what would happen if that big (275 gallon) oil tank lost
about 100 gallons during the night.. Would the fume-air mix detonate at 6AM?
Maybe the sump pump would wake me up, as it started removing the oil..

Anyways, my small Propane tanks are all out in the garage.
Where a leak will have no repercussions.
(Unless someone ignores the stinky smell and starts their car)!!

[Geo NR Gee]

At my home the indoor ashp unit will be in the garage, right next to the natural gas water heater. It is two feet off the garage floor on a pedestal. Mainly for gas leaks from the car I suppose. But it is a ignition source. Funny there is no auto shutoff for it in case of a leak.