Mini Split install
 

List of tools I bought for the install and review of the two systems are here.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothe...nstall-12.html



Mini Split install (this is my first mini split install)
I made some progress.

Bracket installed.
I measured a few times and made sure it mounted on two 2x4's. Then I made sure the 3” hole was free from everything but drywall.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368445



Inside unit installed.
It did this by myself and it is fun getting it through the hole with 2 ft copper pipe sticking out.
I stood on my night stand and almost fell off when putting it on the wall.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368469



Line set cover installed.
I put silver line set tape on the screws just to keep sharp edges away from the line set.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368494




Inside unit wired.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368494

Now I have an issue the cap that is on the large line set is on very very tight. I am afraid I am going to break the line getting it off. Any suggestions?
I thought about applying some heat from a propane torch. But I am up for suggestions.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...018_190832-jpg

Use two adjustable wrenches, hold both in one hand, and squeeze.

Are these left handed threads?
The top one is fixed and the bottom one should come off.
(I see these are not left handed)

That looks like regular right hand threads from here - just a tiny bit a of a thread visible but it appears to be going the right direction.

Put a wrench on the fitting and another on the cap. Lefty-loosey. That way you aren't putting any tension on the line at all. It won't turn the fitting on the line because you're resisting the torque going from the cap into the fitting with the other wrench that is on the fitting. The line just hangs while you're doing this, you're not putting any pressure on it at all.

Mine was not that tight , if I recall correctly . Pretty sure everything was right hand thread .

Nylog Blue is slick , you might put some on the threads ? Let set over nite ?

But may be too thick to penetrate ?

I bought a set of flare nut / tubing wrenches at harbor freight . I used the flare nut / tubing wrench on the small fitting ( that is brazed / silver soldered to the line and a box end metric on the big fitting ( flare nut ) . Less chance of slipping off & rounding the fittings .

I recommend this over two adjustable / crescent wrenches .

Looks like you have half the work finished . :-)

God bless
Wyr

Depends on how you position the wrenches , which direction it tries to turn the big / flare nit fitting .

When I put my lines together , for good , I smeared both sides of the flare ( on the copper tubing ) and the threads if the fitting with Nylog Blue .

I read about using a 37 degree flaring tool ? My old one was 45 degree . I obsessed about this for several days . Finally read that the copper is soft enough that the 45 degree flare will form to the fitting & flare nut , all by itself .

So , that is what I did . Seemed to work OK .

Looks like you are using a factory made line set ? So , the flares are probably pre-made at the factory ? If so , you do not have to mess with it . Unless you have to cut the copper ?

If you cut the copper , use a tubing cutter with a sharp / new wheel . And ream the end of the copper well before you flare it . I held the end of the copper tubing down so the shavings would fall out and not get & stay in the tubing . I did not want copper shavings to be circulating around inside the system . Also blew the tubing out with compressed air , before I hooked it up .

There probably is a plastic disk under the flare nut , to seal the tubing & keep dirt and moisture out . I would not remove this , until you are ready to hook-up the line set . Or , if you take it loose , put it back & snug tighten the flare nit to keep the line sealed .

God bless
Wyr

Are you going to pour a concrete pad of buy a pre-made pad ?

God bless
Wyr

The other one was right handed so I am sure this one is also. This one is just so tight. I will get out my flare nut wrench tomorrow. I used two wrenches and it would not budge. I used a socket and a wrench it would not move.
I think I will have to heat this one to get it off.
The small one came off with the normal amount of pressure.

I just got two oversized patio blocks. I was planning on drilling holed through it and bolting the unit to them.

Yes I am using a premade flare nut line set.

I put some PB Blaster on it and I will let it sit overnight. Maybe I will have better luck in the morning.

PB Blaster did not help at all. Crows foot on a breaker bar no go. I tried my battery power impact driver no go. So I broke out the big guns my air impact driver 450 ft lbs torque.
It took it off like butter I am back in business it is off!

I would examine everything to be sure nothing is damaged / galled .

Your unit was shipped with flare nuts on the fittings and service valves ? And the pre-made factory line set also has flare nuts on it ?

So , you end up with an extra set of flare nuts , in case one is damaged ?

I bought 2 rolls of copper tubing , each 50 ' long . Could not find a line set , locally , when I purchased the system & parts and pieces . I made the flares on the copper & insulated the lines . So , I had to use the flare nuts that came on the equipment .

I looked last night and the biggest flare nut / tubing wrench in the harbor freight set is 22 mm . That was not quite large enough for the big flare nut .

When you go back together , smear a little Nylog Blue on both sides of the flare and the end / face of the flare fitting . And the threads .

Keep up the good work , you are getting there . :-)

God bless
Wyr

Yes it was shipped with flare nuts on fittings and service valves. It did not come with the pre-made lines I ordered them with the unit.
I did not like the patio blocks for the pad so yesterday I poured a pad. Now I have to wait until the cement cures before I can finish.
I am going to finish running the power to it today.

Depending on the outdoor temp , you probably need at least 1 day to let the concrete cure enough to work on it . Two days would probably be better . Maybe more than that if it is cold ?

At work , we usually use " Tap-Cons " or steel drop in anchors for cinder block or concrete .

Did I ask if your outdoor unit has a drain fitting on the bottom ? To allow water melted during defrost , to drain out of the " cabinet " ?

God bless
Wyr

It does have a drain but I am not that concerned about it. Because below a certain temp I will just switch off the mini split and use my natural gas heat. I am outside Greenville SC and we don’t get those cold temps that often and when we do they don’t stay the way for very long.

I really want to get this installed but I am not going to rush it.

I have never used Tapcon’s before but those look perfect. Thanks for the suggestion!

Tapcons rule. Remember to buy a box with a pilot drill bit in it for best results. Be careful with your fresh concrete pad, though. If it's not cured enough, it'll cleave like ice or the holes will strip out.

Should've dropped a couple of bolts in it while it was still wet. Most manufactured units come with some kind of template that will float on concrete.

We were heading out of town yesterday and it was sprinkling. So I needed to get it done before we left and covered up. I will just be wait it out I will have the breaker and the disconnect switch done today.
I would rather it be done right than faster anyway.
It is a very sunny day today :)

Breaker is in and the disconnect switch is ready to go one step closer.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...020_150209-jpg

:-)

Is your mini split 120 VAC or 240 VAC ? What size breaker & wire ?

Slip a piece of Liquid-Tite flex over the cable between the inside & outside units . This will protect the insulation on the cable from UV in the sunlight .

I have seen regular thermostat wire going to a central air condenser , the insulation flaked off the wire after years of exposure to UV .

The black foam insulation on the copper suction line deteriorated too . Wrapping with black tape helps .

God bless
Wyr

Finishing the romex to the load center was fun it is getting very crowded going up to the load center. I used 12-2 because the next mini split will need that size and it was cheaper to just buy big roll 12-2 then buy both 14-2 and 12-2.


It is a 240 vac unit 27 seer 9,000 btu using a 15 amp breaker.
I have some Liquid-Tite flex for the inside cable. Where do you buy the black wrapping tape?
I bought this “Printed Line Set Tape”
1507-S - Venture Tape 1507-S - Printed Line Set Tape - Silver (2" x 180')
but I am not sure this is the right stuff.

Did you fish 2 runs of Romex into the load center ? just about as easy as fishing 1 Romex . Leave the spare in the attic , tape or wirenut the ends for safety . At both ends .

I used black electrical tape to wrap the line set . But this may be what is made for that purpose ?

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/stor...ape&sub=search

I see no reason why the tape you bought would not work fine .

God bless
Wyr

What unit are you installing? Brand, size etc. Where did you buy it?

What size area are you planning on heating/cooling?

I bought the
Gree 9,000 BTU 27 SEER Terra Ductless Heat Pump Air Conditioner System
Terra Series - Ductless Wall Mount Heating and Cooling | Gree Comfort

from acwholesalers.com
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Gree/G...inCat=&subCat=
we got lucky with a good coupon and got it for $815 shipped add in line set, vinyl line set cover, wall sleeve and drain line. $988.81 shipped.
This is for my master bedroom it is south facing and has never stayed the same temp as the rest of the house. I also work from home and my office is setup in there. It is 250 sqft with a master bath 228 sqft.
It needs to be temperature controlled 24 x 7.

The second unit that I haven’t ordered yet is much harder to pick out. It is about 675 sqft but we still have natural gas heat and a 4 ton AC. My wife works in this area during the day I want the mini split to do most of the heating and cooling at night the other systems will assist in heat and cooling kid’s rooms/house.

I am looking at

LG LS120HYV 12,000 BTU 26 SEER.
https://www.acwholesalers.com/LG/LS1...&trail=1004:LG

Fujitsu AOU12RLS2 12,000 BTU 25 SEER
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Fujits...32:22.00-28.00

If you look at them on the energy sate it is a wash (I attached a screen shot)
ENERGY STAR Most Efficient 2011 — Central Air Conditioners and Air Source Heat Pumps : ENERGY STAR
The LG if a couple hundred cheaper and does not put out as much heat at low temps. The Fujitsu has a better reviews cools a little better and puts out more heat.
This area could use a little bigger unit but I want it to be very efficient and my other systems will help out when it is very hot or very cold.

I am making additional solar power and I want to use some of the power to heat with.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368365


http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382368365

Does any one have a real world formula to compare true energy cost or consumption between different mini splits , of different SEER ratings ?

A percentage number would be fun , as it would be applcable , reguardless of the electric rates .

God bless
Wyr

This site seems to have just that.
Ratings are found at AHRI Certification Directory, scroll down and choose Variable-Speed Mini-Split and Multi-Split Heat Pumps.
MN Renovator posted this in another thread.
The one screen shot above is from this site.


ENERGY STAR Most Efficient 2013 is using this
*Estimated using an average price of electricity of 10.9 cents per kilowatt hour.
**Central Air Conditioner lifetime is estimated at 14 years. Air Source Heat Pump lifetime is estimated at 12 years.


Here are two interesting charts sorted high SEER to lower SEER.
LG and Gree 9000 btu systems.

Comparing the SEER numbers with the cooling cost & heating cost , the LG chart makes sense .

The cooling costs make sense on the Gree chart , but the numbers do not seem to make sense , for heating costs ?

I think SEER = BTU / Watts , across the temperature range of a cooling season ?

God bless
Wyr

Yes I agree with you the Gree heating numbers do not make much sense.

The cement is strong enough to at least set the unit on it. I finished the wiring the inside unit was not color coded but the outside unit was color coded. Of course I had to rearrange the wires on the inside unit so the color code matched. It did not take very long to switch the wires.
I pressured tested the system but there was a small leak at the outside unit on the small line. Just a little tighter and now no more leak.
After I soap tested all connections I put the line set cover on it.

I am going to let it sit overnight.

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382536941

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382536941

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382536941

Tools I will be using

Vacuum Pump - on Sale at the Test Equipment Depot
15150 Robinair 15150 Vacuum Pump, 1.5 CFM, Two Stage, 110V $136

Robinair 15150, 15300, and 15500 1.5, 3, and 5 CFM VacuMaster Vacuum Pump - on Sale at the Test Equipment Depot

Supco VG64 Digital Vacuum Gauge $131.95
(this is not the gauge I wanted but the other one was out of stock.)

Supco VG64 Digital Vacuum Gauge - on sale at Test Equipment Depot

Uniweld RHP400 Nitrogen Regulator with 0-400 PSI Delivery Pressure $43.53 (I got a scratched one)

Uniweld RHP400 Nitrogen Regulator with 0-400 PSI Delivery Pressure, CGA580 Inlet Connection and 1/4-Inch Male Flare Outlet Connection - Amazon.com


4 Way AC Manifold Gauge Set R410a R22 R134a w/Hoses+ Hi & Low Coupler Adapters $69.95

(don't buy these gauges they are going back they did not work very good)
4 Way AC Manifold Gauge Set R410A R22 R134a w Hoses Hi Low Coupler Adapters | eBay


Vacuum pump oil Napa

The pressure held overnight. I have been trying to vacuum down the system. New oil in the pump a shut off valve close to the unit. It never got below 500 Microns I checked the vacuum pump with just one hose and the gauge it went 200 Microns no problem. I checked the two hoses and the valve. The valve will not let it get below 400 Microns so I have a bad valve.
I tried the manifold gauge same it would not go below 400 Microns. So I just went from pump to gauge then to outside unit. It was a 300 Microns @4:20 and slowly decreeing 225 Microns @5:10. I guess the plan is to keep it below 200 Microns for a hour then release some 410 from the liquid valve when the pump sound changes disconnect it @the gas valve.

Then let a little more 410 out check for leaks if none release both valves.
I just ordered three 410 ball valves for the next install.

You system has amazing specs.. The install looks expertly done. It should work great!

I had little cut-off valves on my gauge unit hoses and they were leaky.
Each time I opened are closed them, they lost some vac..
I think they may have been designed for holding pressure inside, and not holding a vac..

I think you read my detailed suggested procedure for, the last operation.?.
I like the idea of being able to cut off the Digital Vacuum Gauge, before bleeding in some R410a.
You don't want to pressurize that new gauge.. :)

I let it stay under 200 Microns for over 1 hour it got to 138 Microns. I then used Xringer procedure on the last operation (Thanks!)
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothe...roject-45.html

I rechecked for leaks released some more check for leaks then let it loose.
It is up and running it was putting out 127 heat and it is quietly purring right now.
A big thanks to all those that posted here about their installs!

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/attach...1&d=1382623827

Congrads! 138 Microns is excellent!
It's going down to 47F tomorrow night in Charleston.. :)

Both of my Sanyos are 'quietly purring right now' too..
It's 43F outside now, so a lot of idling is going on..

Thanks I was pretty happy to see it get to 138 microns. I would have liked to Left it at that for a hour and seen if it moved but my valve was leaking so I could not use it to do that. I still felt good about doing the over night pressure test so I just went with it.

It is going to get in the high 30's tonight here so it will be fun seeing how it does. I need to move my thermostat out of the Master bedroom so the rest of the house will get heat.

Lately, I've left my den Sanyo running overnight at 19C (66.2F),
and it does take the chill out of the rest of the house, while keeping the den at 19C..

So, if you have open doorways to rooms you want to heat, and the house
has pretty good insulation, the heat will slowly find it's way into those rooms.
Of course they will be cooler than the area where the MS is installed,
but for sleeping, some people don't like it to be too warm..
If the bedroom was too cool at night, I could crank up the den a notch..

I guess the heating season is really here as of today..
It was overcast, so there wasn't any solar gain.
When we got back from bowling and lunch, it was
quite cool indoors. Like 17-18C... :eek:
Both Sanyos have been on since then..

Congratulations on a job well done by yourself! This is the time of year (swing season) that these units perform at top efficiency. My central unit hasn't run since the last time it was above 90. OTOH, my home-brewed, repurposed, recycled beige box window unit has been running like a dishwasher, saving money over the central air and energy and money over the gas furnace.

I too had a knock-off gauge set, and experienced the same types of problems. I had pinhole vacuum leaks that came and went with the valve o-rings' moods. I had a line pop while I was doing a pressure test with inert gas. That was the last straw. I gave that gage set to my dad and now it hangs pretty in his garage. I have since replaced the manifold set with a robinair unit, which works like magic. They and yellow jacket have lifetime warranties on their stuff, so if you buy 'em new you can get free repair kits or replacement shwag for free for life. More importantly, the counter guy at the refrigeration supply shop will remember you when you return.

Thanks.

I was going to buy a yellow jacket set and got these knockoff ones that came with 410 adapters. (bad place to save money!)
So you were able to use your good gauge set to do the vacuum test and get it down under 200 Microns without it leaking?
If so I am going to try to send these gauges back and get a good set.

We had a heat pump about 15 years ago and I we did not like it at all. It put out cold heat and it really turned use off heat pumps.

This mini split is 100% different this morning it was 38’ outside and the mini split was putting out 120’ air, very nice.
I want to give it some time before I review it but we are off to a good start.

Yes, I have a Supco VG60 micron gage I found at a pawn shop for 10 bucks. I guess it sat around forever before I walked in and knew what it was! This is another indispensible tool I JUST NEED. Without it, i wouldn't have been able to tell my manifold gauge set was leaking. With it, you can tell when your system is pulled as low as it will reasonably go. With the smaller, somewhat portable systems I rig up, I can stop my vacuum pump in as little as 5-10 minutes. After sitting half an hour, the micron gage will tell if I'm good to go or not.

A good gauge set is another tool that will make or break your day. With an industry-leading set, troubles happen rarely. The robinar set I got is circa 1970's vintage and will hold whatever vacuum or reasonable pressure I throw its way. If it ever goes south, the parts house has fixit parts in stock. With its original hoses, it registered below 100 microns and stayed there for an hour. Both sides open, pulling vacuum thru the middle. The only reason I got some yellow jacket lines is because I wanted hoses with valves on the far ends. The new lines obviously seal sooner than the old ones when screwing the service fittings on and off.

Once you get a rig that works, you can add adapters or couplers to the ends to fit whatever you're working on. Then it works even better....

$10 bucks. You sure got a great deal on that gauge. I would have loved to found one for that price.
I think that gauge was a must. I sure would not have know I had bad equipment without that gauge. (The same as you)
My pump is very slow but it worked real well.

I had much the same story as AC Hacker with vacuum pumps. Borrowed from friends at first. Once I got the vacuum gage, I figured out that they wouldn't pull under 200-250 microns. Rather than spring for a real one, I use an ancient refrigerator's guts. It pulls down to below 100 and is quiet. If I'm working on something large, I borrow my buddy's pump, quickly pull down to around 300, then valve off and swap to the mini-mite. At deep vacuum levels, all pumps are slow. It takes a while for all of the water and junk to boil out of the oil i guess.