Sanyo 24KHS72 AC/HP DIY install project - Page 33

wdrzal · 02-03-11, 04:57 PM

That don't look so bad of a spot. Some nitrogen and soapy water will confirm the leaky spot. You do need to use a purge gas while brazing anyhow. A inspection mirror works wonders too see completly around tubes in tight spots. If it is a rub through from the vibration of that poorly mounted sensor you can flow some non-silver bearing brazing rod to patch a pin hole. Silver bearing flow out to much. Clean surface and no flux needed just copper/phosphorus rods,they do this nicely. But their liquidus temperature is over 1700f to 1800f so a two gas torch works best. Propane/O2.........mapp/O2.......Acetylene/O2. If a rod melts but the repair looks gooby or didn't flow you only got to the rods solidus temperature.

Somehow I knew you had a pic.

pachai · 02-16-11, 11:39 AM

Reading about these mini-splits, I wonder...Have any of you looked at a mini-split to figure out if it could be adapted as a water source?
Also, when it says Dual Zone, is that a hard limit, or is that as shipped? Do these things support buying additional inside modules - for example, if I need many zones that have a lower demand?

For my purposes, this would mean I could install a heating system in March and dig my ground loops in the May and June.

Ironically, I asked some Geothermal installers, and several just said
they could not even do vertical bores at my house. So I am going to try a hybrid - have the backhoe open a trench, and drill ala AC_Hacker.

By the way, is this a good calculation:
My boiler is rated for 187,500 BTU/hr.
It is on 1/10 of each hour....so, about 19,000 BTU/hr, i.e.,
2 tons.

Thanks
Seth

pachai · 02-16-11, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachai

Have any of you looked at a mini-split to figure out if it could be adapted as a water source?Seth

I mean, instead of starting with a retired window air conditioner, start instead with a working reversible heat pump. Like an aftermarket hybrid school bus, the pump won't need to know WHY it is so easy to pump....

Thanks
Seth

Xringer · 02-16-11, 12:44 PM

I was thinking of a non-attached (open-loop) water mod for my Sanyo.
Drill two wells and install a water-to-air exchanger behind the Sanyo,
so most of the air pulled into the Sanyo has to pass through it.

It would be great on those hot summer days, since I could use PV for the water pump.
It would have to be self-draining, so no water would stay inside any of the plumbing,
when the power was off.

The ground water here is 60-65 degrees F. So, I think it would do good
during the summer, and might even be good when it's really cold too.
But, I don't know if a low dew-point and high humidity on cold days
would ice-up the A-W exchanger.. Maybe the right amount of 'warm'
water flow will keep the plumbing so warm, it will just drip off and not
build up an ice-cake.. It would need to be adjustable.

Xringer · 02-20-11, 09:28 AM

Last night, it was about 15F with 50% humidity, we suddenly had power-overload alarms.

This normally happens if we call for a too-big increase in temp, (which we did not do),
or right after a defrost cycle, when the firmware issues a too-big increase.

I was 99% sure there was no ice on the outdoor coil, but I got my little LED flashlight and checked it out..

No frost, but there was a plastic bag.. A CVS bag was blocking the air input on the bottom of the coil.
It was only covering about a 10"x10" area, but it seems to have been the cause of the over-current.
(Line voltage was normal at 242vac).

So, if you have a heat pump running and live in the city, watch out for plastic bags! (And leaves in the fall)..

Xringer · 02-25-11, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdrzal

That don't look so bad of a spot. Some nitrogen and soapy water will confirm the leaky spot. You do need to use a purge gas while brazing anyhow. A inspection mirror works wonders too see completly around tubes in tight spots. If it is a rub through from the vibration of that poorly mounted sensor you can flow some non-silver bearing brazing rod to patch a pin hole. Silver bearing flow out to much. Clean surface and no flux needed just copper/phosphorus rods,they do this nicely. But their liquidus temperature is over 1700f to 1800f so a two gas torch works best. Propane/O2.........mapp/O2.......Acetylene/O2. If a rod melts but the repair looks gooby or didn't flow you only got to the rods solidus temperature.

Somehow I knew you had a pic.

Here's two more pics..

I've been thinking about this for a while.. But while it's so cold, I'm delaying trying to find the leak..
I have a buddy that has some portable torch equipment. He might be able to give me a hand, once I find the hole..

Xringer · 02-28-11, 10:42 AM

In this pdf, on pages 51 & 52, they show a T-Run socket.

http://us.sanyo.com/dynamic/LinkList...sion%204-1.pdf

It's the white socket shown in the center of this pic..

The T-Run (Test Run) pin seems to allow the Sanyo to run, without an indoor unit attached. (Electronically).

It can also be used for Pump-down. (Removing the R410A from the lineset).

So, it makes me wonder if one could use the outdoor unit with different type of heat exchanger inside the house.?.
Perhaps a hot water heater??

I'm thinking about this stuff, because I have a spare outdoor unit in my garage.
Once repaired, it might be usable for all sorts of things..
If the T-Run doesn't time out in 2 minutes..

Daox · 02-28-11, 11:09 AM

I don't see why not...

Xringer · 02-28-11, 11:21 AM

I was just thinking. If I hauled that outdoor unit down to my basement and ran a line-set loop outdoors,
to a heat exchanger down in a well (sitting in 50 deg water).?.

Maybe I could heat my Basement?
Or dehumidify & cool it during the summer?

pachai · 02-28-11, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

I was just thinking. If I hauled that outdoor unit down to my basement and ran a line-set loop outdoors,
to a heat exchanger down in a well (sitting in 50 deg water).?.

XRinger,
That's along the lines I was thinking.
Take a really efficient ASHP and upgrade
it for a fraction of what a commercial GSHP
or WSHP would cost. Looking forward to
hearing if you try it before I get to that stage.

02-03-11, 04:57 PM	#321
wdrzal Lurking Renovator Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Pa. Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	That don't look so bad of a spot. Some nitrogen and soapy water will confirm the leaky spot. You do need to use a purge gas while brazing anyhow. A inspection mirror works wonders too see completly around tubes in tight spots. If it is a rub through from the vibration of that poorly mounted sensor you can flow some non-silver bearing brazing rod to patch a pin hole. Silver bearing flow out to much. Clean surface and no flux needed just copper/phosphorus rods,they do this nicely. But their liquidus temperature is over 1700f to 1800f so a two gas torch works best. Propane/O2.........mapp/O2.......Acetylene/O2. If a rod melts but the repair looks gooby or didn't flow you only got to the rods solidus temperature. Somehow I knew you had a pic. Last edited by wdrzal; 02-03-11 at 05:02 PM..

02-20-11, 09:28 AM	#325
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	plastic bag crash Last night, it was about 15F with 50% humidity, we suddenly had power-overload alarms. This normally happens if we call for a too-big increase in temp, (which we did not do), or right after a defrost cycle, when the firmware issues a too-big increase. I was 99% sure there was no ice on the outdoor coil, but I got my little LED flashlight and checked it out.. No frost, but there was a plastic bag.. A CVS bag was blocking the air input on the bottom of the coil. It was only covering about a 10"x10" area, but it seems to have been the cause of the over-current. (Line voltage was normal at 242vac). So, if you have a heat pump running and live in the city, watch out for plastic bags! (And leaves in the fall)..

02-28-11, 10:42 AM	#327
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	T-Run In this pdf, on pages 51 & 52, they show a T-Run socket. http://us.sanyo.com/dynamic/LinkList...sion%204-1.pdf It's the white socket shown in the center of this pic.. The T-Run (Test Run) pin seems to allow the Sanyo to run, without an indoor unit attached. (Electronically). It can also be used for Pump-down. (Removing the R410A from the lineset). So, it makes me wonder if one could use the outdoor unit with different type of heat exchanger inside the house.?. Perhaps a hot water heater?? I'm thinking about this stuff, because I have a spare outdoor unit in my garage. Once repaired, it might be usable for all sorts of things.. If the T-Run doesn't time out in 2 minutes..

02-28-11, 11:09 AM	#328
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I don't see why not... __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

02-16-11, 11:39 AM	#322
pachai Renovator-in-planning Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 85 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Reading about these mini-splits, I wonder...Have any of you looked at a mini-split to figure out if it could be adapted as a water source? Also, when it says Dual Zone, is that a hard limit, or is that as shipped? Do these things support buying additional inside modules - for example, if I need many zones that have a lower demand? For my purposes, this would mean I could install a heating system in March and dig my ground loops in the May and June. Ironically, I asked some Geothermal installers, and several just said they could not even do vertical bores at my house. So I am going to try a hybrid - have the backhoe open a trench, and drill ala AC_Hacker. By the way, is this a good calculation: My boiler is rated for 187,500 BTU/hr. It is on 1/10 of each hour....so, about 19,000 BTU/hr, i.e., 2 tons. Thanks Seth

02-16-11, 12:44 PM	#324
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I was thinking of a non-attached (open-loop) water mod for my Sanyo. Drill two wells and install a water-to-air exchanger behind the Sanyo, so most of the air pulled into the Sanyo has to pass through it. It would be great on those hot summer days, since I could use PV for the water pump. It would have to be self-draining, so no water would stay inside any of the plumbing, when the power was off. The ground water here is 60-65 degrees F. So, I think it would do good during the summer, and might even be good when it's really cold too. But, I don't know if a low dew-point and high humidity on cold days would ice-up the A-W exchanger.. Maybe the right amount of 'warm' water flow will keep the plumbing so warm, it will just drip off and not build up an ice-cake.. It would need to be adjustable.

02-28-11, 11:21 AM	#329
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I was just thinking. If I hauled that outdoor unit down to my basement and ran a line-set loop outdoors, to a heat exchanger down in a well (sitting in 50 deg water).?. Maybe I could heat my Basement? Or dehumidify & cool it during the summer?