#2 Sanyo 24KHS72 AC/HP Install Project (Oct 2011) - Page 2

Xringer · 10-10-11, 04:13 PM

My old camera has problems, so I'm using my wife's little Nikon CoolPix 5600.
I set it to PC picture mode and the pics don't look big in their natural resolution on my old 1280x1024 LCD..

I do crop almost every picture I post. Since I'm not too accurate with
cameras anymore. I have to chop off all the stuff that I did not intend
to be in the picture..

Anyways, sorry about the slow loading time for today's pics, I've already cropped them etc..

I didn't sleep much last night, and I'm really starting to feel it, on this (Hot) afternoon.
Worked on the Sanyo a few hours today and will post after I eat and take a nap..

Cheers,
Rich

Xringer · 10-10-11, 07:38 PM

Last night, I decided to try to bend the pig tails downwards.. Not an easy job.

I did not like the two lines touching each other. So, I took some scrap and made a little partition between them.

Started drilling right after an early breakfast. 3/4" plywood on top, 1/2" plywood sub-floor and a few inches of foam. Easy going.
Just had to push some insulation out of the way.
Insulation looked thicker. It might be 2 layers of paper-backed R-11.

Hung the wall mounting plate. Got it level to 1/2 degree.

Wife helped me hang the IDU.

The wiring terminals. 4 conductors. A 230V pair, 1 comm line and 1 chassis ground.

Uncovered.

Bolted down and wired up the ODU.

I powered up the system with the remote in 'Fan' mode. No smoke.
Fan mode worked okay.

AC_Hacker · 10-10-11, 07:58 PM

I'm interested how your inside unit location works for you.

I didn't consider locations that were lower than head high, because I assumed that the routines controlling the fan were set for the inside unit being higher on the wall.

I also assumed that the inside units blow cold air higher in the room, and blows warm air lower in the room, to promote a more homogeneous air temperature.

-AC_Hacker

S-F · 10-10-11, 08:26 PM

Could you give us more information on your wiring? Did you apply for a permit for this one?

You're making this look too easy!

Xringer · 10-10-11, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-F

Could you give us more information on your wiring? Did you apply for a permit for this one?

You're making this look too easy!

The wiring is simple. Just need 230 and a ground to the ODU, and 4 wires into the IDU.

That switch might be required in some areas. The red line (#3) is the serial data link between the two units.

The pull-out disconnect in the wall box breaks both L1(5) & L2(6) to the ODU.
That also removes all power from the IDU too.

I already had an old 230 outlet in place, all I had to do was replace the old box with a disconnect box.
Home owners (in my town) are allowed to replace existing lighting fixtures and outlets etc without a permit.
At least that's what the city inspector told me 22 years ago. He said they want to inspect any 'new' wiring you do..

Xringer · 10-10-11, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

I'm interested how your inside unit location works for you.

I didn't consider locations that were lower than head high, because I assumed that the routines controlling the fan were set for the inside unit being higher on the wall.

I also assumed that the inside units blow cold air higher in the room, and blows warm air lower in the room, to promote a more homogeneous air temperature.

-AC_Hacker

This install was going to be lower, but we changed the location to an inside wall.

When I'm sitting in my favorite living room chair (right under install #1),
I'm not too crazy about the warm air blowing right down on top of my head.
So, we mostly use the manual settings to get what 'feels' best.

In the den, I expect that a manual setting of slightly downwards will send
heat to the floor, near the center of the room.
I expect there will be a circular flow to the end of the room (sliding glass door),
up to the ceiling and back towards the unit. which will be pulling air down into it's top air-input grate.

That air-input grate is 40" off the floor. Which means, it's going to be pulling in more cold air,
because it's down lower. So logically, it's going to be heating more cold air.

If the on-board thermostat sensor is enabled, the system should heat
up just about all the air in the room, trying to reach set-point.

A high location is perfect for the Cool Only version.. But our Sanyo is mainly for heating.

Since this is only an 18'x16' room, this system should provide quick heating,
and be able to hold the room at 22C using minimal power.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f1.../9784_9784.jpg

If this unit fails, I plan to replace it with a new 9,000 BTUh system..
The replacement will be installed in the exact same location.

Cheers,
Rich

Xringer · 10-13-11, 03:26 PM

Deliveries today, but it's been raining all day.. Not a good day for crawling under the Den..

The filter came today. (Ordered on Oct 6, 2011). Everyone took the holiday?
It looks un-used (caps on tight), and ready to clean any water and crud out of the R410A in the system.

These Copper-Aluminum lines aren't what I expected. I figured it was some new alloy..
But, it's copper on the ends, bonded to aluminum tubing.
This stuff was a lot easier to un-roll than the old solid copper line set.
I can't see under the insulation, but it looks like all the aluminum might be covered in heat shrink..
Links

Comes with pressure testing data sheet. Burst is 1,880 PSI and working is 900 PSI.
Made by the Woer heat shrink folks in China.

Rolling out 15' on the floor makes it look pretty short.
When I made my plans, the indoor mounting location wasn't very far away from the outdoor unit.
After ordering the 15' line set, the curtains got in the way and now,
15 feet might be a tad short.. I may need a line-set stretcher!

It looks like the weekend is going to be rainless.. So maybe I can finish this install..

Xringer · 10-15-11, 07:07 PM

After raining Thursday & Friday, the sun came out this morning. (for a while)!

I was sure the 15' line-set was going to be too short, so I moved the ODU 16" left.
Installing the line-set went faster than expected, since the aluminum tube bends pretty easily.
I put in the filter-drier, so we could clean out the system right after vacuuming.

When I removed the shipping cap on the 5/8" valve (it caps the line-set connection),
I got a small puff of gas, indicating there was a small amount of valve leakage.
(From inside the ODU to the line-set, with the valve closed).

This caused me to do two things differently.
1. Pressure testing cut to 1/2 hour at 300 PSI.
2. Not attempting to achieve 200 microns of vacuum. (Since the R410A leak would screw it up).

It must have been getting warmer outdoors, because the nitrogen pressure increased from 300 to 305 PSI.

The vacuum pump ran for over an hour before getting down to 500 microns.
I could shut off the pump for 5 minutes and would see very little change.
When I tried to get down to 400, it would get close then bubble back up 450-490 microns.
It was kinda erratic. I assumed this was due to R410A leaking past the large valve.
My R410A certified HVAC buddy said I was probably right.

So when it dipped down near 400, we released the refrigerant and shut the service port cut-off.
(And shut off the vac pump).

I connected the T-Run jumper and we got a smooth two hour cooling run.
I wanted to run it longer, but my HVAC Dude wanted to go home.
Maybe, the filter picked up any floating junk and dried out any H2O
that may have been in the charge. I think longer would have been better.

This pic is a video, click on it to play it..

During this test, line set (and IDU) temperatures dropped to -20 F..

After the we did the pump-down (worked perfectly again).
Removed the dirty filter. Re-vacuuming was much quicker this time.
There must have been a lot of moisture in the system, during the first vac.
We got the same bubbling vac level at 450-490 microns again.
We flooded the line-set and I removed the T-run Jumper, re-connected
the 4-way valve and buttoned up the box, as it started to rain again!!

Heating and cooling functions seem normal. No sign of trouble so far.

This thing might actually work!!!

Cheers,
Rich

Xringer · 10-16-11, 08:39 PM

It was nice and cool in the Den this morning, so I fired up Sanyo #2.
(07:35 48.5 °F outdoors).

The room warmed right up in about 10 minutes.
I noticed it was much more comfortable within about 5 minutes.

Dang, I'm getting up way too early these days. Power use normal.

Measuring R410A going into the IDU.

The system is about 1 pound low on refrigerant, but seems to be working
okay under mild weather conditions..

S-F · 10-16-11, 08:52 PM

Why is it low?

I'm pretty excited to see this all working out.

10-10-11, 04:13 PM	#11
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Camera dying.. My old camera has problems, so I'm using my wife's little Nikon CoolPix 5600. I set it to PC picture mode and the pics don't look big in their natural resolution on my old 1280x1024 LCD.. I do crop almost every picture I post. Since I'm not too accurate with cameras anymore. I have to chop off all the stuff that I did not intend to be in the picture.. Anyways, sorry about the slow loading time for today's pics, I've already cropped them etc.. I didn't sleep much last night, and I'm really starting to feel it, on this (Hot) afternoon. Worked on the Sanyo a few hours today and will post after I eat and take a nap.. Cheers, Rich

10-10-11, 07:38 PM	#12
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Warning large pic files Last night, I decided to try to bend the pig tails downwards.. Not an easy job. I did not like the two lines touching each other. So, I took some scrap and made a little partition between them. Started drilling right after an early breakfast. 3/4" plywood on top, 1/2" plywood sub-floor and a few inches of foam. Easy going. Just had to push some insulation out of the way. Insulation looked thicker. It might be 2 layers of paper-backed R-11. Hung the wall mounting plate. Got it level to 1/2 degree. Wife helped me hang the IDU. The wiring terminals. 4 conductors. A 230V pair, 1 comm line and 1 chassis ground. Uncovered. Bolted down and wired up the ODU. I powered up the system with the remote in 'Fan' mode. No smoke. Fan mode worked okay.

10-10-11, 07:58 PM	#13
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 724 Times in 534 Posts	Inside Unit Location... I'm interested how your inside unit location works for you. I didn't consider locations that were lower than head high, because I assumed that the routines controlling the fan were set for the inside unit being higher on the wall. I also assumed that the inside units blow cold air higher in the room, and blows warm air lower in the room, to promote a more homogeneous air temperature. -AC_Hacker __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

10-13-11, 03:26 PM	#17
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Deliveries today, but it's been raining all day.. Not a good day for crawling under the Den.. The filter came today. (Ordered on Oct 6, 2011). Everyone took the holiday? It looks un-used (caps on tight), and ready to clean any water and crud out of the R410A in the system. These Copper-Aluminum lines aren't what I expected. I figured it was some new alloy.. But, it's copper on the ends, bonded to aluminum tubing. This stuff was a lot easier to un-roll than the old solid copper line set. I can't see under the insulation, but it looks like all the aluminum might be covered in heat shrink.. Links Comes with pressure testing data sheet. Burst is 1,880 PSI and working is 900 PSI. Made by the Woer heat shrink folks in China. Rolling out 15' on the floor makes it look pretty short. When I made my plans, the indoor mounting location wasn't very far away from the outdoor unit. After ordering the 15' line set, the curtains got in the way and now, 15 feet might be a tad short.. I may need a line-set stretcher! It looks like the weekend is going to be rainless.. So maybe I can finish this install.. Last edited by Xringer; 10-16-11 at 09:42 AM..

10-15-11, 07:07 PM	#18
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Day 5 After raining Thursday & Friday, the sun came out this morning. (for a while)! I was sure the 15' line-set was going to be too short, so I moved the ODU 16" left. Installing the line-set went faster than expected, since the aluminum tube bends pretty easily. I put in the filter-drier, so we could clean out the system right after vacuuming. When I removed the shipping cap on the 5/8" valve (it caps the line-set connection), I got a small puff of gas, indicating there was a small amount of valve leakage. (From inside the ODU to the line-set, with the valve closed). This caused me to do two things differently. 1. Pressure testing cut to 1/2 hour at 300 PSI. 2. Not attempting to achieve 200 microns of vacuum. (Since the R410A leak would screw it up). It must have been getting warmer outdoors, because the nitrogen pressure increased from 300 to 305 PSI. The vacuum pump ran for over an hour before getting down to 500 microns. I could shut off the pump for 5 minutes and would see very little change. When I tried to get down to 400, it would get close then bubble back up 450-490 microns. It was kinda erratic. I assumed this was due to R410A leaking past the large valve. My R410A certified HVAC buddy said I was probably right. So when it dipped down near 400, we released the refrigerant and shut the service port cut-off. (And shut off the vac pump). I connected the T-Run jumper and we got a smooth two hour cooling run. I wanted to run it longer, but my HVAC Dude wanted to go home. Maybe, the filter picked up any floating junk and dried out any H2O that may have been in the charge. I think longer would have been better. This pic is a video, click on it to play it.. During this test, line set (and IDU) temperatures dropped to -20 F.. After the we did the pump-down (worked perfectly again). Removed the dirty filter. Re-vacuuming was much quicker this time. There must have been a lot of moisture in the system, during the first vac. We got the same bubbling vac level at 450-490 microns again. We flooded the line-set and I removed the T-run Jumper, re-connected the 4-way valve and buttoned up the box, as it started to rain again!! Heating and cooling functions seem normal. No sign of trouble so far. This thing might actually work!!! Cheers, Rich Last edited by Xringer; 10-13-13 at 01:23 PM..

10-10-11, 08:26 PM	#14
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	Could you give us more information on your wiring? Did you apply for a permit for this one? You're making this look too easy!

10-16-11, 08:39 PM	#19
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	It was nice and cool in the Den this morning, so I fired up Sanyo #2. (07:35 48.5 °F outdoors). The room warmed right up in about 10 minutes. I noticed it was much more comfortable within about 5 minutes. Dang, I'm getting up way too early these days. Power use normal. Measuring R410A going into the IDU. The system is about 1 pound low on refrigerant, but seems to be working okay under mild weather conditions..

10-16-11, 08:52 PM	#20
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	Why is it low? I'm pretty excited to see this all working out.