Indoor window thermal barrier (indoor storms)

Xringer · 09-27-11, 09:14 AM

I was looking at these double pane indoor inserts. Here:
Guy Marsden - insulating windows

I really like the design. But then, I saw these..

Window Insulation, Storm and Replacements windows

That looks like the idea way to make some good insulation..
So, since it's unlikely they have that kind of aluminum at Home Depot, could one use what they do have in stock??
White, 60 in. x 5/16 In., Screen Kit-7025203010 at The Home Depot

Then, it came to me.. Buy Two screen kits and bolt them together, back-to-back!

You need to get some film that will stay in the grooves, using the kit's spline.

I need to check this stuff out..
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053

This idea just might work better than the fancy one above, since the air-gap would likely be 2X larger!

Comments please.

Cheers,
Rich

Daox · 09-27-11, 09:29 AM

I larger air gap doesn't necessarily mean better insulation. I think between 1/8" and 1/2" are ideal because it minimizes convection within the pane.

Still, a good idea and I'd like to see how it works out. I was just looking at the frames I started making last year as I was cleaning up the garage the other day. I still gotta finish those up!

Xringer · 09-27-11, 10:08 AM

Insulated glazing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Typically, most sealed units achieve maximum insulating values using a gas space of between 5/8 to 3/4”

I would expect the double width screen hack would be between 1/2" to 3/4",
depending on the hardware. If it was only 1/4", it would still help,
but the gain might not be worth the price of the extra frame.

Daox · 09-27-11, 10:54 AM

Haha, thanks for the correction!

I didn't think that the ideal was that thick. I actually thought my interior storms were going to be thicker than ideal.

Xringer · 09-27-11, 11:01 AM

Wow, I was just looking at my four Anderson sliders,

And, they either have a VERY narrow gas space, or just some thick glass!!

Daox · 09-27-11, 11:58 AM

I'd be very interested to see what interior storms would do for your den. As I recall, there is quite a bit of glass in there. Since the interior storms have the ability to tripple insulation, it could have a huge effect on that room.

Geo NR Gee · 09-27-11, 03:02 PM

I like it. Just trying to figure how to get the blinds up from behind the insulated glazing unit? Looks like leave the blinds up and let her buy some new window treatments! I'm sure she would go for it then

Phantom · 09-27-11, 04:02 PM

The blinds could be kept functional by placing a hole in the side of the frame just large enough for the pull cord to fit out if it. This will allow for some air movement but not much.

Geo NR Gee · 09-27-11, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom

The blinds could be kept functional by placing a hole in the side of the frame just large enough for the pull cord to fit out if it. This will allow for some air movement but not much.

Yes, that would work. Thanks.

Xringer · 09-28-11, 11:16 PM

"Typically, most sealed units achieve maximum insulating values using a gas space of between 5/8 to 3/4”

On page 16 & 17 of this reference doc,
http://www.andersenwindows.com/homeo...troduction.pdf
is information that seems to id my old LOF 88/1 XI windows.

Hard to tell by looking, but it seems like each pane is about 1/8" thick, with a bit less than 1/8" of air space between them. (Maybe 1/10).?.

I can't see any space at the bottom edge of the pane,
like I can see in my newer replacement windows (Spacer is a strip of metal).
No spacer can be seen, just glass.

These windows just don't seem to have the needed air space to work right..

Our single pane magnetic window cleaning gizmo does not work with our replacement windows.

But, it works just fine on these windows.. Nice strong grip..

09-27-11, 09:14 AM	#1
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Indoor window thermal barrier (indoor storms) I was looking at these double pane indoor inserts. Here: Guy Marsden - insulating windows I really like the design. But then, I saw these.. Window Insulation, Storm and Replacements windows That looks like the idea way to make some good insulation.. So, since it's unlikely they have that kind of aluminum at Home Depot, could one use what they do have in stock?? White, 60 in. x 5/16 In., Screen Kit-7025203010 at The Home Depot Then, it came to me.. Buy Two screen kits and bolt them together, back-to-back! You need to get some film that will stay in the grooves, using the kit's spline. I need to check this stuff out.. http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...atalogId=10053 This idea just might work better than the fancy one above, since the air-gap would likely be 2X larger! Comments please. Cheers, Rich Last edited by Xringer; 09-27-11 at 09:21 AM..

09-27-11, 09:29 AM	#2
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I larger air gap doesn't necessarily mean better insulation. I think between 1/8" and 1/2" are ideal because it minimizes convection within the pane. Still, a good idea and I'd like to see how it works out. I was just looking at the frames I started making last year as I was cleaning up the garage the other day. I still gotta finish those up! __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Last edited by Daox; 09-27-11 at 09:31 AM..

09-27-11, 10:54 AM	#4
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Haha, thanks for the correction! I didn't think that the ideal was that thick. I actually thought my interior storms were going to be thicker than ideal. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-27-11, 11:58 AM	#6
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I'd be very interested to see what interior storms would do for your den. As I recall, there is quite a bit of glass in there. Since the interior storms have the ability to tripple insulation, it could have a huge effect on that room. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-27-11, 10:08 AM	#3
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Insulated glazing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "Typically, most sealed units achieve maximum insulating values using a gas space of between 5/8 to 3/4” I would expect the double width screen hack would be between 1/2" to 3/4", depending on the hardware. If it was only 1/4", it would still help, but the gain might not be worth the price of the extra frame.

09-27-11, 11:01 AM	#5
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Wow, I was just looking at my four Anderson sliders, And, they either have a VERY narrow gas space, or just some thick glass!!

09-27-11, 03:02 PM	#7
Geo NR Gee Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Seattle Posts: 326 Thanks: 109 Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts	I like it. Just trying to figure how to get the blinds up from behind the insulated glazing unit? Looks like leave the blinds up and let her buy some new window treatments! I'm sure she would go for it then

09-27-11, 04:02 PM	#8
Phantom Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 101 Thanks: 13 Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts	The blinds could be kept functional by placing a hole in the side of the frame just large enough for the pull cord to fit out if it. This will allow for some air movement but not much.

09-28-11, 11:16 PM	#10
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 115 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	"Typically, most sealed units achieve maximum insulating values using a gas space of between 5/8 to 3/4” On page 16 & 17 of this reference doc, http://www.andersenwindows.com/homeo...troduction.pdf is information that seems to id my old LOF 88/1 XI windows. Hard to tell by looking, but it seems like each pane is about 1/8" thick, with a bit less than 1/8" of air space between them. (Maybe 1/10).?. I can't see any space at the bottom edge of the pane, like I can see in my newer replacement windows (Spacer is a strip of metal). No spacer can be seen, just glass. These windows just don't seem to have the needed air space to work right.. Our single pane magnetic window cleaning gizmo does not work with our replacement windows. But, it works just fine on these windows.. Nice strong grip..