Indoor window thermal barrier (indoor storms) - Page 2

Xringer · 09-30-11, 11:55 PM

The more we look at these old Andersen sliders, the more we are considering ripping them clean out!

We've been looking at some triple pane Pella 350 series and thinking
about getting some replacement versions of the Pella 350 sliders,
so we can junk the old Andersens. (Maybe use for solar hot air collectors)!

The problem is removing the old (four 4'x4')windows.. With their large mounting flange, holding them tightly in the wall..
Don't want to pull off the siding to get at the flanges..

IIRC, my windows have a large plastic fin or nailing flange around the edge.
(Called New Construction windows)
So, if I can squeeze a sawzall blade in between the while molding strip and
the window, I can saw all around the window and just pull it out..
The pro tool looks like this..

I would be using the Sawzall from the outside..

Comments please..

Thanks,
Rich

S-F · 10-01-11, 12:04 AM

If you're replacing your windows it will probable be cheaper and more energy efficient to put in double pane casements. Less air leaks. The third pane really gives little R - value compared to the amount of air a high quality triple pane sliding window leaks. You can go high R value and high $ slider or for the same performance you could save a mint and put any decent casement in.

Xringer · 10-01-11, 12:22 AM

I really like those crank out windows, but these are 4x4 windows, and if you crank out even a 2 foot window,
the chances of someone walking into it are pretty high.
The walkways on each side are only 4' wide..

Xringer · 10-24-11, 11:04 PM

Well, I got some time this evening to pick up some stuff to make 4 of those indoor thermal 'windows'.

Got two of the 48" x 25' rolls of plastic sheet. It seems like pretty good stuff.
48 in. x 25 ft. Clear Plastic Window Installation Kit-V4825/4 at The Home Depot

Also stopped off at Lowes and picked up 4 screen kits to use as frames.

I want to see if it's possible to use a single frame to make a double sheet (dual pane) window insert.

I want to try laying a trimmed 48"x48" sheet out on a frame, tacking it on with some double-sided-sticky tape.

Then pull the edges of a second 48x48 sheet around from the other side.
Then push the rubber spline into the slot, retaining both plastic sheets.

Or alternately, try tacking on the wrap-around sheet first and then laying
the second smaller sheet on top and spline it all in..

I also picked up some over-sized spline, just in case the kit stuff is too small, to hold these thin sheets of plastic.

The problem I foresee is overlapping the wrap-around at the corners.
The plastic is going to bunch up there.
And I'll have to make a 90d cut in exactly the right place, on all 4 corners.

If it's too hard to accomplish this, I'll go back to plan A, and go buy 4 more screen kits.
Put all 8 together and use two on each window. A wider double pane..

Wider would work better too..

Xringer · 10-26-11, 07:28 PM

Well, the double pane idea wasn't workable. The 48" plastic was too narrow to be wrapped around the edges.

So, we did single pane with screen kits from Lowes. The Home Depot plastic
was really good and tough, but the optics are really bad..

It's a LOT easier making solar screens, than these things!
Took longer and keeping the plastic from bunching up was impossible.

The Home Depot plastic has little defect lines, running all over it's surface and there are marks like roller abrasions lines every 3 inches (48" long).
(caused by some malfunction at the factory).

Today, we got some Ace stick-on open cell insulation to seal the deal..

Used push-pins into the wood window frame to hold the screen frame tight onto the window's plastic frame.

After closing the curtains, our plastic screens look better.

And seem to be working. Heat sensor pistola showed the curtains
were the same temperatures as the walls..
We are expecting come colder weather this week, I'll do more scanning.

I fully expect these things to pay for themselves within 2 years.
(If my wife will put up with the eyesore effect that long)!

Geo NR Gee · 10-26-11, 07:46 PM

Looks good except for the lines in the plastic.

hamsterpower · 10-27-11, 06:11 AM

You didn't say whether you did the last step, heat shrinking. That usually clears up those lines.

Xringer · 10-27-11, 09:03 AM

This type of plastic is very durable, it almost seems washable.
It's much thicker than regular shrink-type window film.
Your fingernail is not going to accidentally puncture this stuff.

I tested some, and it seemed to relax and expand a little under heat,
but came back to it's old size after cooling down. No change in the wrinkles.

It's overcast and rainy this morning, so you don't even notice the defects..

S-F · 10-27-11, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Well, the double pane idea wasn't workable. The 48" plastic was too narrow to be wrapped around the edges.

Could you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I'm following you. This is very interesting.

But When I do it I'm going to go double pane.

Xringer · 10-27-11, 03:08 PM

I really liked the idea of double pane.. But it turned out to be double pain..

The plastic was only 48" wide. My screen frames were too wide to do the wrap-around that I wanted to do..
If I had the double Spline frame, I could have done it..

So, my plan now is to buy 4 more 48" ($50) frame kits and stack the new
ones on top of the old ones..
A little doublesidesticky between them, and I'm done..

But, we have some cold weather coming.. I plan to test this single pane job and see how good it is..
These are over Anderson 'thermalpane' sliders, so we might already be in pretty good shape for a cold winter...

10-26-11, 07:28 PM	#15
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Installed. Well, the double pane idea wasn't workable. The 48" plastic was too narrow to be wrapped around the edges. So, we did single pane with screen kits from Lowes. The Home Depot plastic was really good and tough, but the optics are really bad.. It's a LOT easier making solar screens, than these things! Took longer and keeping the plastic from bunching up was impossible. The Home Depot plastic has little defect lines, running all over it's surface and there are marks like roller abrasions lines every 3 inches (48" long). (caused by some malfunction at the factory). Today, we got some Ace stick-on open cell insulation to seal the deal.. Used push-pins into the wood window frame to hold the screen frame tight onto the window's plastic frame. After closing the curtains, our plastic screens look better. And seem to be working. Heat sensor pistola showed the curtains were the same temperatures as the walls.. We are expecting come colder weather this week, I'll do more scanning. I fully expect these things to pay for themselves within 2 years. (If my wife will put up with the eyesore effect that long)! Last edited by Xringer; 10-26-11 at 07:36 PM.. Reason: bad karma

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09-30-11, 11:55 PM	#11
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	The more we look at these old Andersen sliders, the more we are considering ripping them clean out! We've been looking at some triple pane Pella 350 series and thinking about getting some replacement versions of the Pella 350 sliders, so we can junk the old Andersens. (Maybe use for solar hot air collectors)! The problem is removing the old (four 4'x4')windows.. With their large mounting flange, holding them tightly in the wall.. Don't want to pull off the siding to get at the flanges.. IIRC, my windows have a large plastic fin or nailing flange around the edge. (Called New Construction windows) So, if I can squeeze a sawzall blade in between the while molding strip and the window, I can saw all around the window and just pull it out.. The pro tool looks like this.. I would be using the Sawzall from the outside.. Comments please.. Thanks, Rich

10-01-11, 12:04 AM	#12
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	If you're replacing your windows it will probable be cheaper and more energy efficient to put in double pane casements. Less air leaks. The third pane really gives little R - value compared to the amount of air a high quality triple pane sliding window leaks. You can go high R value and high $ slider or for the same performance you could save a mint and put any decent casement in.

10-01-11, 12:22 AM	#13
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I really like those crank out windows, but these are 4x4 windows, and if you crank out even a 2 foot window, the chances of someone walking into it are pretty high. The walkways on each side are only 4' wide..

10-24-11, 11:04 PM	#14
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Well, I got some time this evening to pick up some stuff to make 4 of those indoor thermal 'windows'. Got two of the 48" x 25' rolls of plastic sheet. It seems like pretty good stuff. 48 in. x 25 ft. Clear Plastic Window Installation Kit-V4825/4 at The Home Depot Also stopped off at Lowes and picked up 4 screen kits to use as frames. I want to see if it's possible to use a single frame to make a double sheet (dual pane) window insert. I want to try laying a trimmed 48"x48" sheet out on a frame, tacking it on with some double-sided-sticky tape. Then pull the edges of a second 48x48 sheet around from the other side. Then push the rubber spline into the slot, retaining both plastic sheets. Or alternately, try tacking on the wrap-around sheet first and then laying the second smaller sheet on top and spline it all in.. I also picked up some over-sized spline, just in case the kit stuff is too small, to hold these thin sheets of plastic. The problem I foresee is overlapping the wrap-around at the corners. The plastic is going to bunch up there. And I'll have to make a 90d cut in exactly the right place, on all 4 corners. If it's too hard to accomplish this, I'll go back to plan A, and go buy 4 more screen kits. Put all 8 together and use two on each window. A wider double pane.. Wider would work better too..

10-26-11, 07:46 PM	#16
Geo NR Gee Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Seattle Posts: 326 Thanks: 109 Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts	Looks good except for the lines in the plastic.

10-27-11, 06:11 AM	#17
hamsterpower Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 142 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts	You didn't say whether you did the last step, heat shrinking. That usually clears up those lines.

10-27-11, 09:03 AM	#18
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	This type of plastic is very durable, it almost seems washable. It's much thicker than regular shrink-type window film. Your fingernail is not going to accidentally puncture this stuff. I tested some, and it seemed to relax and expand a little under heat, but came back to it's old size after cooling down. No change in the wrinkles. It's overcast and rainy this morning, so you don't even notice the defects..

10-27-11, 03:08 PM	#20
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I really liked the idea of double pane.. But it turned out to be double pain.. The plastic was only 48" wide. My screen frames were too wide to do the wrap-around that I wanted to do.. If I had the double Spline frame, I could have done it.. So, my plan now is to buy 4 more 48" ($50) frame kits and stack the new ones on top of the old ones.. A little doublesidesticky between them, and I'm done.. But, we have some cold weather coming.. I plan to test this single pane job and see how good it is.. These are over Anderson 'thermalpane' sliders, so we might already be in pretty good shape for a cold winter...