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Old 08-27-14, 02:19 PM   #171
ctgottapee
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That is a great price if it works out.
My fujitusu 9RLS2 was $1550 with line set and the 4wire interlink cable

Who 'makes' the Gree? Is it a chinese firm knocking of the tech?

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Old 08-27-14, 02:54 PM   #172
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They claim
“ONE IN THREE IS GREE
When in doubt, find strength in numbers – one of every three air conditioners in the world is made by Gree. More customers trust Gree than any other HVAC manufacturer in the world.”
GREE ELECTRIC APPLIANCES,INC.OF ZHUHAI


FAQ - Gree Frequently Asked Questions | Gree Comfort
“Yes, GREE Electric Appliances, Inc. of Zhuhai is the world largest air conditioner enterprise integrating Research & Development, manufacturing, marketing and services. GREE’s annual production capacity is 60 million residential air conditioning systems and 5 million commercial systems. GREE have 80,000 employees, 5,000 engineers on staff, located throughout their nine manufacturing facilities worldwide, based in China, Brazil, Pakistan and Vietnam. Gree products are sold into more than 100 countries worldwide including the United States.”

I was able to find the service manual.
The compressor is Misubishi KNB092FTAMC




Looking over the tech manual the 9K unit and the 12K unit have the exact same compressor.
Even the last part of the model number is the same except /0

It looks like they use the same outdoor unit for both the 12,000 BTU and the 9,000 BTU system.
Here are the parts list.







It looks like maybe they just drive the 12K unit harder than the 9K unit.
I guess that is how they make the 9K unit use less power.
I would think the 9k unit would last longer maybe?
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Last edited by pinballlooking; 08-27-14 at 09:26 PM..
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Old 08-27-14, 05:08 PM   #173
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The same is done for the big guys too, reusing both the indoor and outdoor and just tweaking the algos on the board, occasionally changing a part.

If you look closely at each brand, you'll see some optimize more for the 12k, others more for the 9k version. If you are lucky enough in your use patterns, you can get 9k performance out of the 12k most of the time, and then get that extra boost when needed. Hard to get a super accurate picture on a continuously variable product installed in a very variable USA climate.

The risk of the chinese making everything is they now steel it too

They don't seem to claim any 'hyper heating' capability; maybe there is a parts quality or some other tech involved to maintain that which drives up pricing. Not an issue for SC, but mine was still running in consistent -20 temps for about a day, almost half the time in defrost mode.
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Old 08-27-14, 05:16 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctgottapee View Post
That is a great price if it works out.
My fujitusu 9RLS2 was $1550 with line set and the 4wire interlink cable


They don't seem to claim any 'hyper heating' capability; maybe there is a parts quality or some other tech involved to maintain that which drives up pricing. Not an issue for SC, but mine was still running in consistent -20 temps for about a day, almost half the time in defrost mode
They say it is good to -4 some places I see 5 deg listed some places. If it gets below -4 we just switch to natural gas heat. last year we did use it to -4 -5 but this is very strange for here. That does not happen very often here usually not at all.

I really like your unit if I lived in a colder climate I think I would get the one you got.
How do you like it?

Last edited by pinballlooking; 08-27-14 at 05:27 PM..
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Old 08-28-14, 01:57 AM   #175
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinballlooking View Post
They say it is good to -4 some places I see 5 deg listed some places. If it gets below -4 we just switch to natural gas heat. last year we did use it to -4 -5 but this is very strange for here. That does not happen very often here usually not at all.

I really like your unit if I lived in a colder climate I think I would get the one you got.
How do you like it?
I'm happy but looking critically there are some things I'd change.
The new Mits models now mirror the features and slighly improve on the specs

The performance of the unit is OUTSTANDING. I spend less to cool/heat the whole house ALL year than I use to for just part of the year and a few rooms. While nat gas was cheaper and more convenient at times, I'm happy with quiet consistent performance and no heating swings while it's in heating mode.
The dehumidify only mode is very nice, I use it during off peak times to get good cooling for nickels compared to running the A/C. I'm considering installing a second to replace my standard dehumidifier in the basement that runs at 650watts continuous.

First, most of the 'fancy features' like air cleaner, people sensor, weekly schedule, etc are pretty much useless. I feel like I'm paying for marketing experiments.
-The air cleaner is approx 1" x 7" in a little slot. replacements are non-existent and those who do have them was nearly $50 for the little strip. Car air cleaners that plug in a 12volt outlet are bigger than this!
-The people sensor works, but you can't adjust it's brains. in heating mode it drops the temp by 10degrees, which makes for quite the chill when you wake up or come home and fast deadly heat like from natural gas is not how these units work. Unlike a typical HVAC remote that allows you to adjust setback amounts, this doesn't
-The remote was designed by engineers fighting over who got which button; they should of at least given it a back light, and on screen current temp and humidity - it just displays programmed temp. A big adjustment if you are use to standard US HVAC thermostats, how the Asians could fall behind here is odd.
-The interface for weekly schedule through the few remote buttons is an effort in futility.
-The motorized face is neat, but because the unit is almost always on, you don't really ever see it - it only moves when you manually turn off the unit. And it adds to another part that can go wrong -it once jammed on me after I replaced the filter screens and sent the unit into a tizzy.


I think the gree unit fits a nice niche in these models to provide the basics, and offer a better price without those frills
For those with real winters though, you need the hyper heat capability down to -15/20. Even if you don't see those temps, having the unit shut down to warm back up to 0degrees like some do is not practical if you see less than zero for 16 hours from dusk til dawn. Also impressive that the unit can just handle these temps without having issues - my car barely starts but the outdoor unit just hummed away 24hours a day all winter.


Probably the biggest gripe that you don't see people mention as far as heating goes, is the metal pinging and/or depth charge like noises.
Heating seems to be a non-use or a light use feature for most people with these units. If you run them through a real winter as the primary heat source, the units make a lot of noise as the metal expands and contracts on the indoor exchanger, and the refrigerant 'whooshes' in. The culprit is the defrost mode, which causes the internal metal to change temps drastically.
I remember the sound as a kid from having cheap electric baseboards, only not as frequent.

Not something you want in your bedroom unless you are hard of hearing.
You don't hear this much for cooling as the unit stays in a more static mode.
In cold winter, you have high heat, then a sudden change to cooling reversal for defrost with the whooshing and contraction, then after the heat ramps back up quickly to satisfy the low temps outside, and the low local temps next to the unit as it was in defrost mode cooling around it.
They need a better tech solution for the expansion noise, and quieting the refrigerant noise, or maybe there are some but they just don't include it for pricing reasons. A backup heating element strip would be nice for temp use around the defrost mode.


The second 'gotcha' is the cold winter drain pan issue outside. As the unit defrosts the water collects on the cold metal pan below and freezes. During shoulder seasons, it can eventually clear itself during daytime sunlight, less defrost.
I've had to haul buckets of hot water out there to melt the ice, as if it builds up enough, it moves into the blade area and stops the blades. I had that happen once and the unit responded well, flashed a warning code. The ice is gradual so there is no catastrophic crash. Once the blade rubs the edge of the ice, the unit shuts off the blades and tries to fast spin them, and then shuts down completely if it can get the blade speed it asks for. Also a nice safety feature.
Some units have drain pan heaters, but that is 60-100watts of constant on heating the outdoors. Reading the manuals shows they don't build much brains into the process.

Compare the 9RSLS2 with the 9RLS2H (has drain pan heater) in the HSPF spec, that is a serious drop, as expected if you run 100watts 24 hours a day for several months all winter heating the outdoors.

It seems like nobody is really using these as there only source for heat in cold winters. Many have firewood or similar that masks these issues, or a central placement that disguises the noise which would work. They also don't disclose the dramatic performance penalty of the drain pan heater if needed, as its normally an add-on product. I'm going to try putting in a 8watt strip this winter to see if its enough to keep up except maybe for long periods of sub zero.

People should be advised to install the units in as much direct sunlight hitting the pan as possible for cold winter areas - helpful in defrost too. I thought shielding it from the sun would help the cooling performance, but plenty of research has shown it doesn't, whereas winter sunlight is useful on the pan.
You also have to build a roof for it, or snow get sucked in which sends the unit into constant defrost if you have a thick heavy wet snow fall.

One final note, if you use a electric metering device to monitor usage, it must be PF power factor enabled or you'll get bad readings. The PF varies wildly on these things.
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Old 08-28-14, 07:24 AM   #176
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Good write up I will address some of the issue you talk about here.
The gree iFeel where it adjusts the room temp to where you have the remote. It does something here but I don’t like the results. The temps stays better or more consistent when you don’t use it.

We really like we don’t have the temp swings. When we used our natural gas heat we really had temp swings.

The Gree unit gets this wooshes a couple times a night when it is pretty cold out. The LG units don’t seem as bad here but they are not in my bedroom so I might not notice it as much. When we ran the gas heat the high blower motor was not quite when it kicked on at all. But I put a green blower motor in and it does a soft start this helps and being so loud starting up.

I do not get wooshes in the summer at all from either unit. My humidity stays higher than before just a little higher I might try the dehumidifier mode.
LG units seem to get into the defrost more than the Gree but the Gree can heat to a lower temp.

The Gree unit I installed on a pad this has the defrost water go on the pad and it can build up. The LG I installed on two blocks and this drops the water on the ground and this works better. Both my units get good sun so they melt off most days. We don’t get much snow here so that is not an issue here.
I will be installing the new Gree’s on cement blocks.

The one thing I really miss is my Wi-Fi thermostat. I see some Samsung units allowing you to control them by your phone. I would really like this. The bedroom is no big deal in the summer we leave it one temp all summer. In the winter I adjust it up and down. The LG units we adjust up and down every day and night it adjust 2 deg at a time I do not like this very much.

When it is warmer these are cheaper to heat with but when it is real cold natural gas is cheaper to heat with if I did not have solar power. With extra solar power these units give me the ability to use extra power I am carrying forward to heat with it. Now I have a way to heat with this extra power so I am heating for free or no additional cost this helps us look past the small issues.

Mini splits really don’t have issues when in cooling mode and they save so much power in this mode. In states like FL they would be just amazing.
I really want to get closer to netzero and these units should really help me get there.

Last edited by pinballlooking; 09-03-14 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 08-28-14, 08:05 AM   #177
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The drain pan freezing is independent of where or how you mount it.

In continuous cold weather, the defrost mode dumps water that then quickly freezes inside the unit. The pan has small holes but must keep the unit enclosed for suction ability of the fan. Once the drain holes freeze over, it really starts building up, like several inches of ice. It doesn't seem to hurt much as the ice will melt around the coils in defrost mode, but it can build up and fill the cabinet and hit the fan blades eventually.
There will be ice on the ground the melts it way through but that doesn't effect the units performance.
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Old 08-28-14, 08:18 AM   #178
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I think mounting it makes more of a difference in this climate. We get above freezing most days during the days in the winter. It drains the water away then it does not really build up much here.
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Old 08-28-14, 01:51 PM   #179
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My two Mini Splits came today. They were pack very well and the shrink wrap looked untouched.

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Old 08-28-14, 05:58 PM   #180
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pinballlooking, in post # 176 you mention your humidity stays higher? Don't these mini's run constantly? I'd think they would remove humidity better. Please help me understand. lt190b

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