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Old 01-02-16, 08:43 PM   #151
MEMPHIS91
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I assure you that ever post you have made gave me a AHA! moment. And I then scratch my head for several hours/days to figure out what I didn't understand. So again I say thank you.

Yes I know a larger compressor will change everything. But I do not believe this system is capable of doing what I really need it to with the 7,500btu. I have my eyes on a 9,900btu 3/4hp 115V 60Hertz 51LRA beauty. Most my real tuning should probably wait til then. I was just getting a good fill of things and a decent charge because temps have been colder lately. Low of 23F tonight.
I fill that one day I will be digging around the water tank in order to insulate it because heating the water is much easier and more important than air temp.
I know that the evap can handle the larger compressor. And I can always add another coil in both the water or air condenser if needed. I have come this far I don't know why I would settle for less.
Since this system is heating only, meaning no running at all during the summer, is finding the critical charge that important? I am guessing it will run almost 3/4 to all night tonight to keep up.
I guess I don't understand why the critical point is needed other than for safety. I have a 345psi shut off ready to braze on when I get the larger compressor.
I do understand that I should tune everything to the air side though. Because the water loop will always run less head pressure.

Thanks again man

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Old 01-02-16, 09:32 PM   #152
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Some generalized info:

Safety and quality run together. A high-quality job is safe by nature.

A safety interlock is nice, but a design that doesn't need one is better.

Your 7500 btu compressor could quite possibly put out 9900 btu into a better condenser.

A 9900 btu compressor might not move 9900 btu through your existing condenser. It will definitely gobble up more power.

A 9900 btu compressor might move 12000 btu into a much better condenser.

Whatever happens, the darn thing already works way better than a 1500 watt aquarium heater.
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Old 01-03-16, 09:22 AM   #153
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Yeah that is what I was thinking, until I max out my evap, the condenser is the only thing limiting compressor size. Not that I want something too big and it cycle on and off a bunch but with 400 gallons of water I don't see that happening.
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Old 01-03-16, 12:09 PM   #154
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The test data from 4" from the bottom of the pond is in! Note we have had 3 nights in a row of less than 30F nights.
PHP Code:
                                     RC-5 Data Logger

User Information              RC
-5 Data Logger
Number                        001       
Interval                      1
:0:0 H:M:S
Delay Time                    0.0 H
Data Sum                      71
TemperatureMaximum            89.2°F
TemperatureMinimum            49.3°F
TemperatureAverage            52.7°F
TemperatureAlarm Upper Limit  140.0°F
TemperatureAlarm Lower Limit  
-22.0°F
Start Time                    2015
-12-31 14:07:17
End Time                      2016
-01-03 12:07:17
Date Format                   yyyy
-MM-dd HH:mm:ss
Temperature Unit              °F

Number            Time            Temperature°F
1        2015
-12-31 14:07:17        69.3
2        2015
-12-31 15:07:17        52.3
3        2015
-12-31 16:07:17        52.3
4        2015
-12-31 17:07:17        52.3
5        2015
-12-31 18:07:17        52.3
6        2015
-12-31 19:07:17        52.3
7        2015
-12-31 20:07:17        52.3
8        2015
-12-31 21:07:17        52.3
9        2015
-12-31 22:07:17        52.3
10        2015
-12-31 23:07:17        52.3
11        2016
-01-01 00:07:17        52.3
12        2016
-01-01 01:07:17        52.3
13        2016
-01-01 02:07:17        52.3
14        2016
-01-01 03:07:17        52.3
15        2016
-01-01 04:07:17        52.3
16        2016
-01-01 05:07:17        52.5
17        2016
-01-01 06:07:17        52.3
18        2016
-01-01 07:07:17        52.3
19        2016
-01-01 08:07:17        52.5
20        2016
-01-01 09:07:17        52.5
21        2016
-01-01 10:07:17        52.5
22        2016
-01-01 11:07:17        52.3
23        2016
-01-01 12:07:17        52.5
24        2016
-01-01 13:07:17        52.3
25        2016
-01-01 14:07:17        52.3
26        2016
-01-01 15:07:17        52.2
27        2016
-01-01 16:07:17        52.2
28        2016
-01-01 17:07:17        52.2
29        2016
-01-01 18:07:17        52.2
30        2016
-01-01 19:07:17        52.2
31        2016
-01-01 20:07:17        52.2
32        2016
-01-01 21:07:17        52
33        2016
-01-01 22:07:17        52
34        2016
-01-01 23:07:17        51.8
35        2016
-01-02 00:07:17        51.8
36        2016
-01-02 01:07:17        51.6
37        2016
-01-02 02:07:17        51.6
38        2016
-01-02 03:07:17        51.4
39        2016
-01-02 04:07:17        51.3
40        2016
-01-02 05:07:17        51.1
41        2016
-01-02 06:07:17        51.1
42        2016
-01-02 07:07:17        50.9
43        2016
-01-02 08:07:17        50.9
44        2016
-01-02 09:07:17        50.7
45        2016
-01-02 10:07:17        50.4
46        2016
-01-02 11:07:17        50.4
47        2016
-01-02 12:07:17        50.5
48        2016
-01-02 13:07:17        50.5
49        2016
-01-02 14:07:17        50.5
50        2016
-01-02 15:07:17        50.5
51        2016
-01-02 16:07:17        50.5
52        2016
-01-02 17:07:17        50.5
53        2016
-01-02 18:07:17        50.5
54        2016
-01-02 19:07:17        50.5
55        2016
-01-02 20:07:17        50.5
56        2016
-01-02 21:07:17        50.5
57        2016
-01-02 22:07:17        50.7
58        2016
-01-02 23:07:17        50.7
59        2016
-01-03 00:07:17        50.5
60        2016
-01-03 01:07:17        50.5
61        2016
-01-03 02:07:17        50.4
62        2016
-01-03 03:07:17        50.2
63        2016
-01-03 04:07:17        50
64        2016
-01-03 05:07:17        49.8
65        2016
-01-03 06:07:17        49.8
66        2016
-01-03 07:07:17        49.6
67        2016
-01-03 08:07:17        49.6
68        2016
-01-03 09:07:17        49.5 
Looks like my other thermometer was better than I thought
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Old 01-15-16, 07:58 PM   #155
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So I got the 53 LRA R22 10,000 BTU compress on.


Went ahead a made a larger condenser for the fish tank. I added another 20 feet of 1/4" painted black nontoxic copper tubing.



And I filled it with straight R290


Here are the numbers, first is the temp of the incoming and outgoing lines in the fish tank.
Next is the pressures and the suction temp (low number) and the line temp right before the txv.





So as you can see pretty low superheat and higher subcooling. Which means I'm slightly over charged, but I'm only pulling 775 watts. I only used .6 kwh last night compared 2.5-3.5 kwh with the same temps. My pond temp is about 45F.

Here is the data from the pond, some days got down to 15F.
PHP Code:
 RC-5 Data Logger

User Information              RC
-5 Data Logger
Number                        001       
Interval                      1
:0:0 H:M:S
Delay Time                    0.0 H
Data Sum                      213
TemperatureMaximum            85.6°F
TemperatureMinimum            45°F
TemperatureAverage            47.1°F
TemperatureAlarm Upper Limit  140.0°F
TemperatureAlarm Lower Limit  
-22.0°F
Start Time                    2012
-01-01 23:06:51
End Time                      2012
-01-10 19:06:51
Date Format                   yyyy
-MM-dd HH:mm:ss
Temperature Unit              °F

Number            Time            Temperature°F
1        2012
-01-01 23:06:51        85.6
2        2012
-01-02 00:06:51        49.5
3        2012
-01-02 01:06:51        49.5
4        2012
-01-02 02:06:51        49.5
5        2012
-01-02 03:06:51        49.5
6        2012
-01-02 04:06:51        49.5
7        2012
-01-02 05:06:51        49.5
8        2012
-01-02 06:06:51        49.5
9        2012
-01-02 07:06:51        49.3
10        2012
-01-02 08:06:51        49.3
11        2012
-01-02 09:06:51        48.9
12        2012
-01-02 10:06:51        48.9
13        2012
-01-02 11:06:51        48.7
14        2012
-01-02 12:06:51        48.6
15        2012
-01-02 13:06:51        48.6
16        2012
-01-02 14:06:51        48.6
17        2012
-01-02 15:06:51        48.6
18        2012
-01-02 16:06:51        48.7
19        2012
-01-02 17:06:51        48.7
20        2012
-01-02 18:06:51        48.7
21        2012
-01-02 19:06:51        48.7
22        2012
-01-02 20:06:51        48.7
23        2012
-01-02 21:06:51        48.7
24        2012
-01-02 22:06:51        48.9
25        2012
-01-02 23:06:51        48.9
26        2012
-01-03 00:06:51        48.7
27        2012
-01-03 01:06:51        48.7
28        2012
-01-03 02:06:51        48.6
29        2012
-01-03 03:06:51        48.6
30        2012
-01-03 04:06:51        48.4
31        2012
-01-03 05:06:51        48.2
32        2012
-01-03 06:06:51        48.2
33        2012
-01-03 07:06:51        48
34        2012
-01-03 08:06:51        47.8
35        2012
-01-03 09:06:51        47.7
36        2012
-01-03 10:06:51        47.7
37        2012
-01-03 11:06:51        47.3
38        2012
-01-03 12:06:51        47.3
39        2012
-01-03 13:06:51        47.3
40        2012
-01-03 14:06:51        47.3
41        2012
-01-03 15:06:51        47.3
42        2012
-01-03 16:06:51        47.3
43        2012
-01-03 17:06:51        47.3
44        2012
-01-03 18:06:51        47.3
45        2012
-01-03 19:06:51        47.3
46        2012
-01-03 20:06:51        47.3
47        2012
-01-03 21:06:51        47.3
48        2012
-01-03 22:06:51        47.3
49        2012
-01-03 23:06:51        47.5
50        2012
-01-04 00:06:51        47.5
51        2012
-01-04 01:06:51        47.5
52        2012
-01-04 02:06:51        47.3
53        2012
-01-04 03:06:51        47.3
54        2012
-01-04 04:06:51        47.3
55        2012
-01-04 05:06:51        47.3
56        2012
-01-04 06:06:51        47.1
57        2012
-01-04 07:06:51        47.1
58        2012
-01-04 08:06:51        46.9
59        2012
-01-04 09:06:51        46.9
60        2012
-01-04 10:06:51        46.8
61        2012
-01-04 11:06:51        46.6
62        2012
-01-04 12:06:51        46.4
63        2012
-01-04 13:06:51        46.2
64        2012
-01-04 14:06:51        46.2
65        2012
-01-04 15:06:51        46.2
66        2012
-01-04 16:06:51        46.4
67        2012
-01-04 17:06:51        46.4
68        2012
-01-04 18:06:51        46.4
69        2012
-01-04 19:06:51        46.4
70        2012
-01-04 20:06:51        46.4
71        2012
-01-04 21:06:51        46.4
72        2012
-01-04 22:06:51        46.4
73        2012
-01-04 23:06:51        46.4
74        2012
-01-05 00:06:51        46.6
75        2012
-01-05 01:06:51        46.6
76        2012
-01-05 02:06:51        46.6
77        2012
-01-05 03:06:51        46.6
78        2012
-01-05 04:06:51        46.6
79        2012
-01-05 05:06:51        46.6
80        2012
-01-05 06:06:51        46.6
81        2012
-01-05 07:06:51        46.6
82        2012
-01-05 08:06:51        46.4
83        2012
-01-05 09:06:51        46.4
84        2012
-01-05 10:06:51        46.4
85        2012
-01-05 11:06:51        46.4
86        2012
-01-05 12:06:51        46.4
87        2012
-01-05 13:06:51        46
88        2012
-01-05 14:06:51        46.2
89        2012
-01-05 15:06:51        46.2
90        2012
-01-05 16:06:51        46.2
91        2012
-01-05 17:06:51        46.2
92        2012
-01-05 18:06:51        46.2
93        2012
-01-05 19:06:51        46.2
94        2012
-01-05 20:06:51        46.2
95        2012
-01-05 21:06:51        46.4
96        2012
-01-05 22:06:51        46.4
97        2012
-01-05 23:06:51        46.4
98        2012
-01-06 00:06:51        46.4
99        2012
-01-06 01:06:51        46.4
100        2012
-01-06 02:06:51        46.4
101        2012
-01-06 03:06:51        46.4
102        2012
-01-06 04:06:51        46.4
103        2012
-01-06 05:06:51        46.4
104        2012
-01-06 06:06:51        46.4
105        2012
-01-06 07:06:51        46.4
106        2012
-01-06 08:06:51        46.6
107        2012
-01-06 09:06:51        46.6
108        2012
-01-06 10:06:51        46.6
109        2012
-01-06 11:06:51        46.6
110        2012
-01-06 12:06:51        46.6
111        2012
-01-06 13:06:51        46.6
112        2012
-01-06 14:06:51        46.6
113        2012
-01-06 15:06:51        46.6
114        2012
-01-06 16:06:51        46.6
115        2012
-01-06 17:06:51        46.8
116        2012
-01-06 18:06:51        46.6
117        2012
-01-06 19:06:51        46.8
118        2012
-01-06 20:06:51        46.8
119        2012
-01-06 21:06:51        46.8
120        2012
-01-06 22:06:51        46.8
121        2012
-01-06 23:06:51        46.8
122        2012
-01-07 00:06:51        46.8
123        2012
-01-07 01:06:51        46.8
124        2012
-01-07 02:06:51        46.8
125        2012
-01-07 03:06:51        46.8
126        2012
-01-07 04:06:51        46.8
127        2012
-01-07 05:06:51        46.8
128        2012
-01-07 06:06:51        46.8
129        2012
-01-07 07:06:51        46.8
130        2012
-01-07 08:06:51        46.8
131        2012
-01-07 09:06:51        46.9
132        2012
-01-07 10:06:51        46.9
133        2012
-01-07 11:06:51        46.9
134        2012
-01-07 12:06:51        46.9
135        2012
-01-07 13:06:51        46.9
136        2012
-01-07 14:06:51        46.9
137        2012
-01-07 15:06:51        46.9
138        2012
-01-07 16:06:51        46.9
139        2012
-01-07 17:06:51        46.9
140        2012
-01-07 18:06:51        46.9
141        2012
-01-07 19:06:51        46.9
142        2012
-01-07 20:06:51        46.9
143        2012
-01-07 21:06:51        46.9
144        2012
-01-07 22:06:51        47.1
145        2012
-01-07 23:06:51        47.1
146        2012
-01-08 00:06:51        47.1
147        2012
-01-08 01:06:51        47.1
148        2012
-01-08 02:06:51        47.1
149        2012
-01-08 03:06:51        47.1
150        2012
-01-08 04:06:51        47.1
151        2012
-01-08 05:06:51        47.1
152        2012
-01-08 06:06:51        47.1
153        2012
-01-08 07:06:51        47.1
154        2012
-01-08 08:06:51        47.1
155        2012
-01-08 09:06:51        47.1
156        2012
-01-08 10:06:51        47.1
157        2012
-01-08 11:06:51        47.3
158        2012
-01-08 12:06:51        47.3
159        2012
-01-08 13:06:51        47.3
160        2012
-01-08 14:06:51        47.3
161        2012
-01-08 15:06:51        47.3
162        2012
-01-08 16:06:51        47.3
163        2012
-01-08 17:06:51        47.3
164        2012
-01-08 18:06:51        47.3
165        2012
-01-08 19:06:51        47.3
166        2012
-01-08 20:06:51        47.3
167        2012
-01-08 21:06:51        47.3
168        2012
-01-08 22:06:51        47.3
169        2012
-01-08 23:06:51        47.3
170        2012
-01-09 00:06:51        47.3
171        2012
-01-09 01:06:51        47.3
172        2012
-01-09 02:06:51        47.1
173        2012
-01-09 03:06:51        47.1
174        2012
-01-09 04:06:51        46.9
175        2012
-01-09 05:06:51        46.8
176        2012
-01-09 06:06:51        46.6
177        2012
-01-09 07:06:51        46.4
178        2012
-01-09 08:06:51        46.2
179        2012
-01-09 09:06:51        46
180        2012
-01-09 10:06:51        45.9
181        2012
-01-09 11:06:51        45.7
182        2012
-01-09 12:06:51        45.5
183        2012
-01-09 13:06:51        45.5
184        2012
-01-09 14:06:51        45.3
185        2012
-01-09 15:06:51        45.5
186        2012
-01-09 16:06:51        45.5
187        2012
-01-09 17:06:51        45.5
188        2012
-01-09 18:06:51        45.5
189        2012
-01-09 19:06:51        45.5
190        2012
-01-09 20:06:51        45.5
191        2012
-01-09 21:06:51        45.5
192        2012
-01-09 22:06:51        45.5
193        2012
-01-09 23:06:51        45.5
194        2012
-01-10 00:06:51        45.5
195        2012
-01-10 01:06:51        45.5
196        2012
-01-10 02:06:51        45.5
197        2012
-01-10 03:06:51        45.5
198        2012
-01-10 04:06:51        45.7
199        2012
-01-10 05:06:51        45.5
200        2012
-01-10 06:06:51        45.5
201        2012
-01-10 07:06:51        45.5
202        2012
-01-10 08:06:51        45.5
203        2012
-01-10 09:06:51        45.5
204        2012
-01-10 10:06:51        45.3
205        2012
-01-10 11:06:51        45.3
206        2012
-01-10 12:06:51        45.1
207        2012
-01-10 13:06:51        45.3
208        2012
-01-10 14:06:51        45
209        2012
-01-10 15:06:51        45
210        2012
-01-10 16:06:51        45.1
211        2012
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212        2012
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213        2012
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So I'm happy with it for now, been crazy crazy busy this week with work and stuff. My main concern is the pond getting too cold...... I know the fish have to stay alive, so there must be some warm water in that pond somewhere. Maybe I'm not at the warmest spot? I thought the deepest would be the warmest, but the pond is slopped and the deepest point is right at the levee??? I'll be taking more readings in different places.
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Old 01-15-16, 09:51 PM   #156
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Sweet! Those numbers look and sound a lot better. The extra pipe in the water made a world of difference.
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Old 01-15-16, 11:41 PM   #157
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I always remember that the warmth is near the surface and the farther down you get it gets cooler. At least from my days of swimming in the lakes as a kid.

Can you run a temp probe into the lake and check the different depths?
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Old 01-16-16, 12:48 PM   #158
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Jeff, yes it sure did help.

Geo NR Gee, Yes that is what I thought too, but the uppermost layer is going to be affected by the cold more I believe, seeing as it freezes first. I have data loggers in a couple different places right now. I will need cold water in the summer, so seeing as I have more cooling days than heating days, I might be best staying close to the bottom.
I found this link, Heat in Lakes
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Old 01-16-16, 09:25 PM   #159
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Another link http://fishandboat.com/anglerboater/...y02finding.pdf
that says that the water right under the ice is normally 39.2F. That to me is great news, my water temp should never be lower than that.
This pond is 17 feet deep. I have never seen more than 2 inches of ice on it and that only lasted for a few days. There is a lot of heat in 39.3F water.

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