EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Geothermal & Heat Pumps
Advanced Search
 


Blog Register 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-25-14, 04:49 PM   #11
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 155 Times in 147 Posts
Default

We had colder than -20C and the indoor was set at 60F (I haven't changed the control to read C yet), the lowest it would go, which means the compression ratio must be close to max. I noticed a bit of oily stuff running from the flare nut down about 4' of the large tube, inside the insulation and a drip on the ground. I assume if there was enough pressure to push the oil out, some gas would also come out but I am not going to do anything like pump it down till it gets warmer. It is still heating and because there is only 5' of line set, I should have an excess of gas and oil as well.

It didn't show any leaks when the outdoor temps were around freezing.

I just looked at the specs. The max running current should be 4.5A. Bummer. I better check as I may have bought a 1.5 ton unit (but I don't think so).


Last edited by Mikesolar; 01-25-14 at 04:53 PM..
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 02:03 AM   #12
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,002
Thanks: 303
Thanked 703 Times in 526 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesolar View Post
...as I lost a bit of oil and doubtless a bit of gas as well over the recent cold spell...
Did you use Nylog (AKA: "snot") on the flare faces and an actual torque wrench to assure that you were tightening your flare nuts to full specification when you put your line set together?

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 01-26-14 at 02:06 AM..
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 06:23 AM   #13
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 155 Times in 147 Posts
Default

The torque wrench I have is for sockets but I have been doing gas flares for 25 years and this is the first persistent problem I have had with a R410A flare. I do use Nylog (I like the snot term) and my flare tool is the Ridgid swivel that I have been using for years without problems. I was told that a bit of oil loss is not an issue and the same fridgie told me that Mitsi said the pot can sometimes pull considerably higher than the max stated running amps. Remember that it was -20C outside.

The problem is, unlike a normal split system, inverters are hard to get true readings on and they often only give you one port for pressures.
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 08:54 AM   #14
WyrTwister
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 543
Thanks: 6
Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesolar View Post
The torque wrench I have is for sockets but I have been doing gas flares for 25 years and this is the first persistent problem I have had with a R410A flare. I do use Nylog (I like the snot term) and my flare tool is the Ridgid swivel that I have been using for years without problems. I was told that a bit of oil loss is not an issue and the same fridgie told me that Mitsi said the pot can sometimes pull considerably higher than the max stated running amps. Remember that it was -20C outside.

The problem is, unlike a normal split system, inverters are hard to get true readings on and they often only give you one port for pressures.
I had a 1/2" torque wrench , as you said , for sockets .

I bought a 3/8" torque wrench and 3/8" drive metric " crows feet " . In both " normal " and flare nut version . I had read to position the crows foot at 90 degree on the torque wrench . ( 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock )

If the spec on the mini split is 4.5 amps of 240 VAC , then the watts are lower than my unit at 10 amps of 120 VAC . Which is what I would expect , since I remember yours was a higher SEER than my 13 SEER .

God bless
Wyr
WyrTwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 09:00 AM   #15
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 155 Times in 147 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrTwister View Post
I had a 1/2" torque wrench , as you said , for sockets .

I bought a 3/8" torque wrench and 3/8" drive metric " crows feet " . In both " normal " and flare nut version . I had read to position the crows foot at 90 degree on the torque wrench . ( 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock )

If the spec on the mini split is 4.5 amps of 240 VAC , then the watts are lower than my unit at 10 amps of 120 VAC . Which is what I would expect , since I remember yours was a higher SEER than my 13 SEER .

God bless
Wyr
Have you got a link to the "crows feet" thingies? Might make sense to get.
Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 09:16 AM   #16
WyrTwister
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 543
Thanks: 6
Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikesolar View Post
Have you got a link to the "crows feet" thingies? Might make sense to get.

I may be criticized for buying at Harbor Freight ?

Search results for: 'crow foot'

The thing is , I have most of the " regular " tools I need on projects . But , I find myself needing special purpose tools for many of my projects . Often , I end up using them only one or two times , not enough to worry about wearing out the tooling .

So , I buy often Harbor Freight tools . The only real concern is , if I break the HF tool ? I try to take that into account .

Truth is , the quality of many of the HF tools has improved a lot , over the last 15 years . And , most of the time , you can visually tell the difference between HF tools that are good enough and those that are not good enough .

I am OK with good enough , I do not look for perfect , in this world .

Also , at my age , I am even less likely to wear out new tooling .

And , the truth is , moth of my torque wrenches are HF .

As a side note , my mini split HP is running , as I type this .

God bless
Wyr
WyrTwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 09:44 AM   #17
WyrTwister
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 543
Thanks: 6
Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff5may View Post
How did you lose oil and gas?
I can tell you how I lost gas & oil .

I insulated both copper refrigerant lines , except the last foot or so . I had left that " bare " so I could cut to length & flare the ends .

I had the system up and running OK . However , both lines and the brass service valves were sweating , a lot ( late June ) .

I proceeded to finish insulating the bare metal . But I dumbed up and wiggled the small line enough to cause it to leak , at the flare nut . Unfortunately , I did not notice it , then . :-)

Latter that day , the unit quit working . Went outside and noticed oil on the concrete . This was on the weekend . Was not able to buy a jug of R410a until Monday . Or get in touch with of factory technical assistance until Monday .

I had obsessed about the loss of oil , all weekend . The technical support guy asked me how much oil I lost ? I described the puddle on the concrete . He told me not to worry , a little oil on concrete will spread out to a scary size puddle . He also told me the condensers are shipped with enough oil to accommodate the max length of line set , listed in the specifications .

When I told him I had the min 15 foot line set , he assured me I was OK .

Anyway , I re-did the flare , vacuumed the system down and weighed out the specified charge of R410a .

I bought a roll of cork insulating tape at Johnstone supply and CAREFULLY finished insulating the service valves and remainder of the copper lines .

Praise the Lord !

It worked and was still working ( in HP ) mode , a few minutes ago . When I was in the living room .

God bless
Wyr

PS This illustrates than many of my problems are self inflicted . :-(

I know quite a few ways of doing things , that do not work ! :-(
WyrTwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 09:48 AM   #18
WyrTwister
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 543
Thanks: 6
Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
Did you use Nylog (AKA: "snot") on the flare faces and an actual torque wrench to assure that you were tightening your flare nuts to full specification when you put your line set together?

-AC
I can vouch for Nylog Blue for R410a and R134a ( automotive ) use . I think they make Nylog Red for mineral oil systems ? R12 or R22 units .

God bless
Wyr
WyrTwister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 10:20 AM   #19
jeff5may
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA
Posts: 2,348
Thanks: 367
Thanked 591 Times in 494 Posts
Send a message via Yahoo to jeff5may
Default

So is the unit acting any different after the possible leak? This is the easiest way to tell. With an inverter unit, if you lost much gas, the compressor will run faster for longer each cycle.

The unit has an operation map in it, like a car. To find its place on the map, the compressor will have to move more gas from start-up. With R410a, the pressure difference is very high, so frosting and discharge temperature issues show up quickly compared to R22 systems. The inverter units are typically loaded to the gills with temp and pressure sensors so the controller can work well under a wide variety of conditions.

If the unit is still operating, I wouldn't sweat it too much. As long as you've sealed the leak, and the unit isn't tripping or faulting out, it's operating within its map. If it senses an abnormally low charge condition while running, it will most likely alert you to this condition. Like a car, the fault code may point to something else, but the unit will tell you something is awry.
jeff5may is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-14, 10:29 AM   #20
Mikesolar
Master EcoRenovator
 
Mikesolar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Toronto
Posts: 958
Thanks: 40
Thanked 155 Times in 147 Posts
Default

Yes, the unit is working well and heats well. My fridgie friends are not too concerned but I am a bit because I don't know how much gas is still in it and the only way to really find out is to take it out and weigh in the proper amount. At -15c today, that ain't gonna happen

There have been no trips or lockouts of any type so.......I'll keep on, keeping on.

Mikesolar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design