Fixing a leak in the low pressure side A/C aluminum hard line (in a car) - Page 7

jeff5may · 09-05-15, 01:00 AM

If your ls2 or l200 (can't remember ) has a 4 cylinder in it, you are lucky. It is a 1st gen ecotec 2.2 and us un lots of cars. Big winners are cavalier, grand am se, sunfire, ion, cobalt. All the stuff drops on and off between engines the original air-cooled VW's. Pull-a-part yards are your playground. Look for 03 to 06 models, you might find the exact same compressor in another car with a different gm part number on it.

OTOH, if the car is a v6, the opposite is true. These engines are not common or durable. You will be waiting for parts, so you might as well get a reman compressor for 5 bucks more than a clutch kit. You may find a compressor if you live in a greater metro area and call around for a while.

WyrTwister · 09-09-15, 10:15 AM

Vacuuming ?

Well , here is what I have read & pieced together .

The older refrigerants , such as R12 & R22 ( residential application / use ) , used mineral oil ( petroleum based ) as a refrigeration oil . It would absorb moisture , to a certain extent . Moisture is a very big enemy of refrigeration & A/C . I think it reacts with the refrigerant & forms an acid . Or something like that .

Air almost always contains some moisture . The first purpose of vacuuming the refrigeration system down , is 2 fold .

Remove the air . It is refereed to as a non-compressible . Although it compresses , air does not change to a liquid in " normal " refrigeration systems . This is counter productive . Remove the air & you solve that problem .

Also , the 2nd issue is the moisture in the air . The vacuum , hopefully removes most / all of that .

Now , R134a & R410a . Both use synthetic refrigeration oil . Which , I read , absorb moisture much , much more / worse . Meaning , the vacuum is much , much less effective at removing moisture from the oil / system .

If the system is not open , allowing air / moisture inside , I do not necessarily see the need to replace the accumulator / receiver / dryer . As long as there is some positive pressure inside the system , I can not see the need / have to , replace it .

God bless
Wyr

Daox · 09-09-15, 10:22 AM

The car is an L200, it has the 2.2L in it. Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can find for parts. My guess is the clutch is still good, the coil is just fried.

The system is now sealed and holds pressure. I just need to find a new clutch coil so the compressor will engage. That should allow me to charge it up the rest of the way.

WyrTwister · 09-09-15, 10:47 AM

My thinking is , as long as there is some positive pressure , even a little . Air / moisture can not get inside .

But , if the system was ever open / exposed to the atmosphere , the accumulator should have been replaced at that point .

One thing that I was trying to say , is the vacuum pump is much less effective at removing moisture , than in the old days of mineral oil .

The desiccant ( inside the accumulator ) is relied on even more , to remove & trap / retain moisture , than in times past . The vacuum pump can not be relyed on to do that for you .

Best of luck . :-)

God bless
Wyr

WyrTwister · 09-09-15, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

The car is an L200, it has the 2.2L in it. Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can find for parts. My guess is the clutch is still good, the coil is just fried.

The system is now sealed and holds pressure. I just need to find a new clutch coil so the compressor will engage. That should allow me to charge it up the rest of the way.

Pay attention to the air gap on the clutch , when you put it back together . Do not know what it is suppose to be on your Saturn ? Might be a good idea and use a feeler gauge to measure the gap , now , before you mess with it .

God bless
Wyr

Ron342 · 01-19-16, 08:37 AM

Any update on the Saturn launch?
I've learned so much about auto ac from this thread that i'm willing to tackle my daughters dead Toyota compressor clutch!
But not til spring, its 15 degrees here!

Daox · 01-19-16, 11:17 AM

Nope, no updates. The Saturn owner ended up with a few other issues with the car and will probably be getting rid of it instead of fixing it up.

I'm glad I'm not the only one learning from this thread.

WyrTwister · 01-19-16, 12:15 PM

I had the impression Saturns were at least as good as other GM cars ? I know GM tried to market them as better , but I do not know that was factual ?

Being an orphan brand , parts may be getting scarce and / or expensive ?

I replaced front seals on a couple of older Chevy A/C compressors , so I had to consider the air gap on them . Even if I could remember the spec , may or may not be the same on a Saturn .

No idea on a Toyota . Do a search on youtube and / or google . Try using an ohm meter to check for continuity of the clutch coil and if you have continuity , then see if the ohms reading is with in spec . And see if you are getting 12 VDC to the clutch electrical connector .

God bless
Wyr

God bless
Wyr

jeff5may · 01-19-16, 11:30 PM

I have had lots of experience driving and working on the s-series, the original Saturn model. The main idea is this: the older, the better. When Saturn was born, it came from the ashes of GM's electric car program, and was very different from the rest of GM. As GM projected more and more influence on the Saturn brand as a whole, the worse the effect on Saturn as a company. With the s-series, this at first came as cost-shaving measures. Cast parts were changed to stamped, or worse, plastic.

The original s-series models all got phenomenal fuel economy. They had the 2.2l 4 cylinder engine in them. The only real difference was the cylinder head: single or dual overhead cam. The single cam I owned consistently got 40 mpg or better. If I did 60 mph on flat highway, it got close to 500 miles on a 10 gallon fillup. When I took road trips, I never had to stop for gas. One weekend, we drove from fort Knox, to Nashville, to Dollywood, all around Gatlinburg all weekend, to the corvette museum, and back to fort Knox, all one one tank of gas.

I got cut off at a light in it and hit a focus in the rear quarter doing about 15 mph. Her car was crumpled so bad it wouldn't move, my front bumper cover sheared its mushroom fasteners that held it to the tire apron. Regardless, the insurance adjuster offered me way more to give it up than it was worth. When it left me, it had close to 300,000 miles on it.

After the first gen, I have owned 2 more s-series cars, both twin cams. They get slightly less fuel economy, but have much more pep when you need it. The 2002 model I drive now just turned over 200,000 miles. When I found it, everything about it was bone stock. Nothing about it had been worked on or torn into. The reason the first owner got rid of it: too low to the ground for his hips. So far, I have changed oil, tires, and a battery. And one wheel bearing and front brakes.

All models of Saturn's are made with GM parts. The s-series was replaced with the ion. The ion was equipped with an ecotec engine, just like a sunfire or cavalier or Malibu or grand am. The ion was turned into the cobalt when gm got their hands on the design. I can go find parts at a salvage yard from various places in these cars that will work on my sc2. Dash clusters from other cars will drop right in and function correctly for a custom look (some will set a check engine light). I can put cobalt wheels on it, directly swap. Super cheap to repair if it ever needs one.

The last few years, GM wouldn't let Saturn design their new models at all, other than body and interiors. They are in fact rebadged GM cars with facelifts. These models are even easier to find parts for, and any GM goodwrench shop will work on them.

09-09-15, 10:22 AM	#63
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	The car is an L200, it has the 2.2L in it. Thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can find for parts. My guess is the clutch is still good, the coil is just fried. The system is now sealed and holds pressure. I just need to find a new clutch coil so the compressor will engage. That should allow me to charge it up the rest of the way. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

01-19-16, 08:37 AM	#66
Ron342 Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Maryland Posts: 120 Thanks: 26 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	ac in january? Any update on the Saturn launch? I've learned so much about auto ac from this thread that i'm willing to tackle my daughters dead Toyota compressor clutch! But not til spring, its 15 degrees here!

01-19-16, 11:17 AM	#67
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Nope, no updates. The Saturn owner ended up with a few other issues with the car and will probably be getting rid of it instead of fixing it up. I'm glad I'm not the only one learning from this thread. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

09-05-15, 01:00 AM	#61
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	If your ls2 or l200 (can't remember ) has a 4 cylinder in it, you are lucky. It is a 1st gen ecotec 2.2 and us un lots of cars. Big winners are cavalier, grand am se, sunfire, ion, cobalt. All the stuff drops on and off between engines the original air-cooled VW's. Pull-a-part yards are your playground. Look for 03 to 06 models, you might find the exact same compressor in another car with a different gm part number on it. OTOH, if the car is a v6, the opposite is true. These engines are not common or durable. You will be waiting for parts, so you might as well get a reman compressor for 5 bucks more than a clutch kit. You may find a compressor if you live in a greater metro area and call around for a while.

09-09-15, 10:15 AM	#62
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	Vacuuming ? Well , here is what I have read & pieced together . The older refrigerants , such as R12 & R22 ( residential application / use ) , used mineral oil ( petroleum based ) as a refrigeration oil . It would absorb moisture , to a certain extent . Moisture is a very big enemy of refrigeration & A/C . I think it reacts with the refrigerant & forms an acid . Or something like that . Air almost always contains some moisture . The first purpose of vacuuming the refrigeration system down , is 2 fold . Remove the air . It is refereed to as a non-compressible . Although it compresses , air does not change to a liquid in " normal " refrigeration systems . This is counter productive . Remove the air & you solve that problem . Also , the 2nd issue is the moisture in the air . The vacuum , hopefully removes most / all of that . Now , R134a & R410a . Both use synthetic refrigeration oil . Which , I read , absorb moisture much , much more / worse . Meaning , the vacuum is much , much less effective at removing moisture from the oil / system . If the system is not open , allowing air / moisture inside , I do not necessarily see the need to replace the accumulator / receiver / dryer . As long as there is some positive pressure inside the system , I can not see the need / have to , replace it . God bless Wyr

09-09-15, 10:47 AM	#64
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	My thinking is , as long as there is some positive pressure , even a little . Air / moisture can not get inside . But , if the system was ever open / exposed to the atmosphere , the accumulator should have been replaced at that point . One thing that I was trying to say , is the vacuum pump is much less effective at removing moisture , than in the old days of mineral oil . The desiccant ( inside the accumulator ) is relied on even more , to remove & trap / retain moisture , than in times past . The vacuum pump can not be relyed on to do that for you . Best of luck . :-) God bless Wyr

01-19-16, 12:15 PM	#68
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	I had the impression Saturns were at least as good as other GM cars ? I know GM tried to market them as better , but I do not know that was factual ? Being an orphan brand , parts may be getting scarce and / or expensive ? I replaced front seals on a couple of older Chevy A/C compressors , so I had to consider the air gap on them . Even if I could remember the spec , may or may not be the same on a Saturn . No idea on a Toyota . Do a search on youtube and / or google . Try using an ohm meter to check for continuity of the clutch coil and if you have continuity , then see if the ohms reading is with in spec . And see if you are getting 12 VDC to the clutch electrical connector . God bless Wyr God bless Wyr

01-19-16, 11:30 PM	#69
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	I have had lots of experience driving and working on the s-series, the original Saturn model. The main idea is this: the older, the better. When Saturn was born, it came from the ashes of GM's electric car program, and was very different from the rest of GM. As GM projected more and more influence on the Saturn brand as a whole, the worse the effect on Saturn as a company. With the s-series, this at first came as cost-shaving measures. Cast parts were changed to stamped, or worse, plastic. The original s-series models all got phenomenal fuel economy. They had the 2.2l 4 cylinder engine in them. The only real difference was the cylinder head: single or dual overhead cam. The single cam I owned consistently got 40 mpg or better. If I did 60 mph on flat highway, it got close to 500 miles on a 10 gallon fillup. When I took road trips, I never had to stop for gas. One weekend, we drove from fort Knox, to Nashville, to Dollywood, all around Gatlinburg all weekend, to the corvette museum, and back to fort Knox, all one one tank of gas. I got cut off at a light in it and hit a focus in the rear quarter doing about 15 mph. Her car was crumpled so bad it wouldn't move, my front bumper cover sheared its mushroom fasteners that held it to the tire apron. Regardless, the insurance adjuster offered me way more to give it up than it was worth. When it left me, it had close to 300,000 miles on it. After the first gen, I have owned 2 more s-series cars, both twin cams. They get slightly less fuel economy, but have much more pep when you need it. The 2002 model I drive now just turned over 200,000 miles. When I found it, everything about it was bone stock. Nothing about it had been worked on or torn into. The reason the first owner got rid of it: too low to the ground for his hips. So far, I have changed oil, tires, and a battery. And one wheel bearing and front brakes. All models of Saturn's are made with GM parts. The s-series was replaced with the ion. The ion was equipped with an ecotec engine, just like a sunfire or cavalier or Malibu or grand am. The ion was turned into the cobalt when gm got their hands on the design. I can go find parts at a salvage yard from various places in these cars that will work on my sc2. Dash clusters from other cars will drop right in and function correctly for a custom look (some will set a check engine light). I can put cobalt wheels on it, directly swap. Super cheap to repair if it ever needs one. The last few years, GM wouldn't let Saturn design their new models at all, other than body and interiors. They are in fact rebadged GM cars with facelifts. These models are even easier to find parts for, and any GM goodwrench shop will work on them.