Lurking Around. Here from Ontario, Canada

pinhead · 08-26-11, 08:50 AM

Well hopefully I don't get fired.
I stumbled upon this website while looking for a GSHP to buy. Read 90 pages of the homemade heat-pump manifesto, and continue to read the many topics that interest me surfacing for coffee once in a while.

I just bought a house that is about 125 years old and hope to pay less than the $7k the previous owners were paying each year for energy.

My plans are to build a DX system running with isopropyl alcohol. Still in the planning stages but thought I would say drop a line as I have been lurking now for a few weeks..

A big thank you to everyone here for the wealth of information that is being compiled!

Daox · 08-26-11, 09:42 AM

Welcome to the site pinhead.

$7k a year for utlities!

As we recommend to pretty much all new users. Sealing the house is by far the most important thing, especially in a colder climate where the vast majority of your energy usage goes to heating. Thankfully its cheap and relatively easy.

pinhead · 08-26-11, 10:29 AM

Good to know. I have heard from some friends who when through the 'Eco-Energy Audit' that this is one of their primary recommendations also. I plan to have that audit done as soon as I move in. (next week!!)

AC_Hacker · 08-26-11, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinhead

...I plan to have that audit done as soon as I move in. (next week!!)

I echo Daox's welcome.

I say insulate, insulate, insulate... (after you seal, seal, seal)

Your interest in 'DX system running with isopropyl alcohol' sounds very intriguing.

I hope to hear more about it.

Best Regards,

-AC_Hacker

pinhead · 08-26-11, 12:19 PM

Well I knew nothing of how an AC unit worked, and now I know very little.
Looking at the vapor pressure of isopropyl I plan to test running the low side at ≈10mmHG and the high side around atmospheric pressure. The first iteration will have a manual metering valve but my dreams include a VSD pump and a servo controlled metering valve to get full control over the system. But as it goes, you need to walk before you can run. I don't even know how well the isopropyl will work. I assume the biggest challenge will be balancing the vacuum needed to evaporate it with the density needed to conduct heat transfer properly.
That is as far as I have been thinking. I do not understand the endothermic and exothermic and all those other numbers to really qualify my design so I have moved to the doing portion to prove/disprove my assumptions. So far I have procured my parts, but I haven't got them all hooked together yet.
Oh, electronics is my background. I can do anything electronics. Chemistry, and thermal dynamics.. I might as well be reading about it in German.

strider3700 · 08-26-11, 03:27 PM

get the audit done first thing because after that everything you do to improve your score is worth some tax credits. After that how far you go is up to you and when you're done you'll need another audit to get a report of the improvements but it's almost always worth it.

herlichka · 08-28-11, 08:36 AM

The Eco-audit is the access point to the Canadian government's eco grant programme. The auditor will outline which grants are available to you, he'll calculate the grant values, and help you plan a course of action. There are some very basic projects, such as installing gaskets on your outlet covers, that will help cover the cost of the inspection. If you are a DIY sort of person, and able to do the work yourself, then you will find the experience almost profitable. I installed approx. 12" of blown-in insulation in the attic of our 1910 home, $650 in material and blower rental, for a $1300 grant. Aside from the grant money, the difference in the comfort level was immediate, a very worthwhile project. We also replaced a 1962 ( yes, 1962, date stamp on the blower!) gas furnace with a high efficiency condensing gas furnace for a further $1700 grant! These improvements cut our gas bill by about 60%.

pinhead · 08-28-11, 12:43 PM

Well thank you for you positive feedback of that program. I have wondered, looking at the grant table, how reasonable it was going to be to get more than just a few cents on the dollar spent. If Ontario would continue matching the federal rebate it would make it even better but as far as I know Ontario has pulled out of this program.

herlichka · 08-28-11, 04:37 PM

You are right, the Ontario matching grant programme ended in March 2011, but the Federal Government grants are still substantial, especially if they are for projects that you want, or need, to do anyway. Ontario still offers an incentive, the Government will pay half, up to $150.00, of the cost of the "Ontario Home Energy Audit". Go to the Government of Ontario website, Ministry of Energy, for details. There was also a surprise little rebate that we recieved from Ontario Power Generation, because our new furnace was equipped with a variable speed DC blower motor ($150.00)

AC_Hacker · 08-28-11, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinhead

Well... Looking at the vapor pressure of isopropyl I plan to test running the low side at ≈10mmHG...

Oh, so you're thinking of using a flammable refrigerant?

I'd say that you are standing at the doorway to insanity. I think with a little help we can pull you through...

-AC_Hacker

08-26-11, 08:50 AM	#1
pinhead Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada! Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Lurking Around. Here from Ontario, Canada Well hopefully I don't get fired. I stumbled upon this website while looking for a GSHP to buy. Read 90 pages of the homemade heat-pump manifesto, and continue to read the many topics that interest me surfacing for coffee once in a while. I just bought a house that is about 125 years old and hope to pay less than the $7k the previous owners were paying each year for energy. My plans are to build a DX system running with isopropyl alcohol. Still in the planning stages but thought I would say drop a line as I have been lurking now for a few weeks.. A big thank you to everyone here for the wealth of information that is being compiled!

08-26-11, 09:42 AM	#2
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	Welcome to the site pinhead. $7k a year for utlities! As we recommend to pretty much all new users. Sealing the house is by far the most important thing, especially in a colder climate where the vast majority of your energy usage goes to heating. Thankfully its cheap and relatively easy. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

08-28-11, 04:37 PM	#9
herlichka Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Simcoe County, Ontario, Canada Posts: 102 Thanks: 11 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts	You are right, the Ontario matching grant programme ended in March 2011, but the Federal Government grants are still substantial, especially if they are for projects that you want, or need, to do anyway. Ontario still offers an incentive, the Government will pay half, up to $150.00, of the cost of the "Ontario Home Energy Audit". Go to the Government of Ontario website, Ministry of Energy, for details. There was also a surprise little rebate that we recieved from Ontario Power Generation, because our new furnace was equipped with a variable speed DC blower motor ($150.00) Last edited by herlichka; 08-28-11 at 05:59 PM.. Reason: spelling

08-26-11, 10:29 AM	#3
pinhead Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada! Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Good to know. I have heard from some friends who when through the 'Eco-Energy Audit' that this is one of their primary recommendations also. I plan to have that audit done as soon as I move in. (next week!!)

08-26-11, 12:19 PM	#5
pinhead Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada! Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Well I knew nothing of how an AC unit worked, and now I know very little. Looking at the vapor pressure of isopropyl I plan to test running the low side at ≈10mmHG and the high side around atmospheric pressure. The first iteration will have a manual metering valve but my dreams include a VSD pump and a servo controlled metering valve to get full control over the system. But as it goes, you need to walk before you can run. I don't even know how well the isopropyl will work. I assume the biggest challenge will be balancing the vacuum needed to evaporate it with the density needed to conduct heat transfer properly. That is as far as I have been thinking. I do not understand the endothermic and exothermic and all those other numbers to really qualify my design so I have moved to the doing portion to prove/disprove my assumptions. So far I have procured my parts, but I haven't got them all hooked together yet. Oh, electronics is my background. I can do anything electronics. Chemistry, and thermal dynamics.. I might as well be reading about it in German.

08-26-11, 03:27 PM	#6
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	get the audit done first thing because after that everything you do to improve your score is worth some tax credits. After that how far you go is up to you and when you're done you'll need another audit to get a report of the improvements but it's almost always worth it.

08-28-11, 08:36 AM	#7
herlichka Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Simcoe County, Ontario, Canada Posts: 102 Thanks: 11 Thanked 15 Times in 10 Posts	The Eco-audit is the access point to the Canadian government's eco grant programme. The auditor will outline which grants are available to you, he'll calculate the grant values, and help you plan a course of action. There are some very basic projects, such as installing gaskets on your outlet covers, that will help cover the cost of the inspection. If you are a DIY sort of person, and able to do the work yourself, then you will find the experience almost profitable. I installed approx. 12" of blown-in insulation in the attic of our 1910 home, $650 in material and blower rental, for a $1300 grant. Aside from the grant money, the difference in the comfort level was immediate, a very worthwhile project. We also replaced a 1962 ( yes, 1962, date stamp on the blower!) gas furnace with a high efficiency condensing gas furnace for a further $1700 grant! These improvements cut our gas bill by about 60%.

08-28-11, 12:43 PM	#8
pinhead Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Ontario, Canada! Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts	Well thank you for you positive feedback of that program. I have wondered, looking at the grant table, how reasonable it was going to be to get more than just a few cents on the dollar spent. If Ontario would continue matching the federal rebate it would make it even better but as far as I know Ontario has pulled out of this program.