Solar panels from your big box stores - Page 2

Xringer · 12-15-09, 10:42 AM

The cost of the 230vac cabling down to your breaker box is going to depend on labor
and less on parts. If you go with a 3 string setup like these guys,
Gordy (7) on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
You will need 3 230vac cut-off switches going to 3 breaker pairs in your box.

I would do my own wiring, so it would be a lot cheaper for me.

Check out all those Gordy (n) photos.. They give you a good idea of what goes into a PV install.

There is also a video on youtube..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJPXsN_gFz8

GaryGary · 12-18-09, 08:57 PM

Hi,
While its nice to see solar PV systems coming to Lowes, the price seems high compared to just buying a system that uses the Enphase micro-inverters from any of a number of PV places.

I got my panels and Enphase inverters from WholesaleSolar.com -- they have a 2150 STC watt kit for $8900 that includes most of what's needed to do the install, including mount rails. The only other things I had to buy locally were wire from array to breaker box, and the disconnect switch -- about $200. Ends up coming in at about $4.30 per watt before rebates, and less than $3 per watt after state and fed rebates.

Pretty easy to put in.
Designing and Installing a Grid-Tie PV System

The near real time monitoring is kind of fun:
New Page 1
The micro-inverters send out status and error messages, and Enphase looks at these and sends you an email if something needs fixing

Gary

Xringer · 12-18-09, 10:19 PM

Gary,
I see you have 215 Watt panels and I'm wondering about what kind of power output you get (under idea conditions).

It just seems odd to use a 215W panel with a 190W inverter.?.
But, I don't have any hands-on experience with PV yet.

I've been day-dreaming of using the 190W Enphase inverters,
but with panels that have 190W peak output or less.

And, it seems like the 175W panels are in a much lower price range these days..

I'm thinking of starting off with 1 or 2 panels on a simple pole mount (old dish mount) as a feasibility study.
If it worked out, I would install a much bigger post and more panels.
(Using InPhase inverters).

I think the shadows in my backyard will be at their longest on the 21st.
I've been studying them every day, and I found there is one pretty good spot for a PV array, just south of the old TVRO dish.

Cheers,
Rich

GaryGary · 12-19-09, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Gary,
I see you have 215 Watt panels and I'm wondering about what kind of power output you get (under idea conditions).

It just seems odd to use a 215W panel with a 190W inverter.?.
But, I don't have any hands-on experience with PV yet.

I've been day-dreaming of using the 190W Enphase inverters,
but with panels that have 190W peak output or less.

And, it seems like the 175W panels are in a much lower price range these days..

I'm thinking of starting off with 1 or 2 panels on a simple pole mount (old dish mount) as a feasibility study.
If it worked out, I would install a much bigger post and more panels.
(Using InPhase inverters).

I think the shadows in my backyard will be at their longest on the 21st.
I've been studying them every day, and I found there is one pretty good spot for a PV array, just south of the old TVRO dish.

Cheers,
Rich

Hi,
I was concerned about the panel rating being above the inverter rating, and I considered downsizing to 200 watt panels. Wholesale Solar was willing to do this and to give a modest price credit. In the end, after talking with Enphase and looking into it more, I kept the 215 watt panels when I ordered the kit.

The idea behind using a larger panel than the inverter is rated for is that the PV panels are rated under STC conditions, and these are very optimistic. The STC rating is 1000 watt sun and 25C panel surface temp. Since panels normally run well above air temperature, it takes a really cold/windy day to get the surface temp down to 25C. There is a PTC rating which is much more realistic. Its something like 1000 watt sun with 20C air temp, and 1 m/sec wind(?). Under good conditions, PV panels might actually make the PTC ratings. California only gives rebate credit for the PTC rating.
The PTC rating for my 215 watt panel is pretty close to the Enphase 190 watt inverter rating. The Enphase 190 watt inverters actually will put out about 198 watts max. Also remember that the 190 watt rating is AC output, so you have to also take in to account the 95% efficiency of the inverter.

I'm in an area that gets very good sun on some days -- we are at 5000 ft elevation (so we often get more than 1000 watt sun), and usually have very clear skies on cloudless days days. I've watched the panel outputs on some good clear, cold days. On a very good day, it will make it up to the inverter limit and the 10 panel system will be putting out 1950 watts near noon, but when I look at the power curve for the day, I don't see any indication that the inverters are limiting production to any significant degree. If the inverters were limiting production, the power curve for the day would have a flat top over the time the inverters are capping power, and I don't see that.

I think in most areas it would not be an issue at all.

This is a very long winded way of saying that I don't think the 190 watt inverters will limit the power output from 215 watt panels under real conditions.

Gary

Xringer · 12-19-09, 05:26 PM

I figured it was something to do with how they rated the hardware.
And, if you aren't seeing any flat-topping in cool weather with good sun,
you picked the right panels.

I've just down-shifted my thinking to 12V on my 'feasibility study'.
Going down to a smaller scale I think. But not so small it won't have a practical use.

Maybe I'll power my cable modem and wireless router.. Get those parasites off the NStar bill..

NeilBlanchard · 12-21-09, 03:37 PM

Here's some panels that cost $3.17/watt:

DMSOLAR Solar Panel 240w with Enphase M190 Micro-Inverter

Xringer · 12-21-09, 04:40 PM

Gary is doing good with his 215 watt panels (into the 190W Enphase), but I wonder if
maybe a 230w module might be pushing the Enphase a little too hard?

Oh no! ** Minimum Order Quantity: 20

20 panels? That's like 3.8kw isn't it? Kinda big..

~~~

I just found "Brightwatts" solar stuff at Lowes.. Coming on Dec 27th..

Xringer · 12-22-09, 08:36 AM

Found a more informative Lowes article.

Andalay Solar shopping at Lowe’s | GUNTHER Portfolio

algernon · 03-12-10, 11:05 PM

Has anyone seen panels here in Canada?

gasstingy · 03-16-10, 01:31 PM

I had a system designed by a solar professional and gave him a couple of considerations for the design. One, it must be able to grow in size without having to keep selling and upgrading the inverter(s). Second, I want all American manufactured products. The Enphase Inverters and Sharp 175 Watt panels I bought work nicely. He designed a ground mount adjustable rack, too, that my wife and I built. It holds six panels. We only have four (700W), but it will be easy to upgrade to 6. In the heat of the summer, my highest noted output was 652 watts, in the recent cold months, I have witnessed 712 watts output. I did not sign up to have Enphase monitor my system. I just use the Enphase Energy Control Unit display. Overall, it works great and I will be adding a couple more panels when I have some available money.

12-18-09, 10:19 PM	#13
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Gary, I see you have 215 Watt panels and I'm wondering about what kind of power output you get (under idea conditions). It just seems odd to use a 215W panel with a 190W inverter.?. But, I don't have any hands-on experience with PV yet. I've been day-dreaming of using the 190W Enphase inverters, but with panels that have 190W peak output or less. And, it seems like the 175W panels are in a much lower price range these days.. I'm thinking of starting off with 1 or 2 panels on a simple pole mount (old dish mount) as a feasibility study. If it worked out, I would install a much bigger post and more panels. (Using InPhase inverters). I think the shadows in my backyard will be at their longest on the 21st. I've been studying them every day, and I found there is one pretty good spot for a PV array, just south of the old TVRO dish. Cheers, Rich Last edited by Xringer; 12-18-09 at 10:39 PM..

12-21-09, 04:40 PM	#17
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Gary is doing good with his 215 watt panels (into the 190W Enphase), but I wonder if maybe a 230w module might be pushing the Enphase a little too hard? Oh no! ** Minimum Order Quantity: 20 20 panels? That's like 3.8kw isn't it? Kinda big.. ~~~ I just found "Brightwatts" solar stuff at Lowes.. Coming on Dec 27th.. Last edited by Xringer; 12-21-09 at 05:00 PM..

12-18-09, 08:57 PM	#12
GaryGary Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: SW Montana Posts: 139 Thanks: 1 Thanked 21 Times in 15 Posts	Hi, While its nice to see solar PV systems coming to Lowes, the price seems high compared to just buying a system that uses the Enphase micro-inverters from any of a number of PV places. I got my panels and Enphase inverters from WholesaleSolar.com -- they have a 2150 STC watt kit for $8900 that includes most of what's needed to do the install, including mount rails. The only other things I had to buy locally were wire from array to breaker box, and the disconnect switch -- about $200. Ends up coming in at about $4.30 per watt before rebates, and less than $3 per watt after state and fed rebates. Pretty easy to put in. Designing and Installing a Grid-Tie PV System The near real time monitoring is kind of fun: New Page 1 The micro-inverters send out status and error messages, and Enphase looks at these and sends you an email if something needs fixing Gary

12-19-09, 05:26 PM	#15
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I figured it was something to do with how they rated the hardware. And, if you aren't seeing any flat-topping in cool weather with good sun, you picked the right panels. I've just down-shifted my thinking to 12V on my 'feasibility study'. Going down to a smaller scale I think. But not so small it won't have a practical use. Maybe I'll power my cable modem and wireless router.. Get those parasites off the NStar bill..

12-21-09, 03:37 PM	#16
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	Here's some panels that cost $3.17/watt: DMSOLAR Solar Panel 240w with Enphase M190 Micro-Inverter

12-22-09, 08:36 AM	#18
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Found a more informative Lowes article. Andalay Solar shopping at Lowe’s \| GUNTHER Portfolio

03-12-10, 11:05 PM	#19
algernon New Guy Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Calgary Posts: 2 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Has anyone seen panels here in Canada?

03-16-10, 01:31 PM	#20
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	I had a system designed by a solar professional and gave him a couple of considerations for the design. One, it must be able to grow in size without having to keep selling and upgrading the inverter(s). Second, I want all American manufactured products. The Enphase Inverters and Sharp 175 Watt panels I bought work nicely. He designed a ground mount adjustable rack, too, that my wife and I built. It holds six panels. We only have four (700W), but it will be easy to upgrade to 6. In the heat of the summer, my highest noted output was 652 watts, in the recent cold months, I have witnessed 712 watts output. I did not sign up to have Enphase monitor my system. I just use the Enphase Energy Control Unit display. Overall, it works great and I will be adding a couple more panels when I have some available money.