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Old 11-03-09, 05:25 AM   #1
charlie_D
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Default Old farm house, options?

Hi, nice to be here.

I'm hoping someone might have some suggestions for decreasing my electricity usage; I've been staring at this problem for so long maybe I'm missing the obvious. I'll start with some background.

I recently purchased my 'dream home'; it's a 3200sq ft, 100 year old brick farm house on 16 acres. It's all-electric, has a geothermal system for heating (the label says 'water furnace synergy3'), and most of the main floor windows have been replaced. The second floor windows are 20-30, the older push-slider type. I've caulked around all of these to decrease leakage.

The atic area is an ongoing project; it was partially finished when I bought the house, and there are a lot of 'open' areas between the roof and here. The door to the atic is weather-stripped and closed until I can insulate the crawl-out doors and the roof access hatch.

All fixtures are using CFL bulbs, I've re-weather stripped every door leading outside, and replaced all the kitchen appliances with energy efficient ones. Water comes from a submersible pump, no idea what it draws for power, and I've fixed a lot of the electrical issues the house had (bare, live wires, "missing" junction boxes, DIY, reused electrical panel in the garage that should have burned said garage down long ago, etc).

My problem is, my energy bill refuses to budge. I seem to be using approximately 4000kwh per month, no matter how conservative I am with lighting, and the thermostat is set to 70. This is a currently 3, soon to be 4 person home. We don't have any exotic equipment, just a laptop we primarily use for internet (the other computers don't get used much, since we moved), and a 52" LCD television that's on maybe 3 hours per day.

I suppose I should mention; I live in Manitoba, Canada. My budget has mostly been exhausted buying equipment needed for the property, so any other improvements will by necessity come at a slower pace. Basically, I'm wondering if anyone can think of anything else I can do to cut down this bill? I'd like to use the money to have a more efficient home, rather than just give it to the hydro company.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Charlie

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Old 11-03-09, 06:49 AM   #2
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Welcome to the site Charlie.

Also, I welcome you to the group of old farm house owners. For me, the biggest thing was sealing up the house. Everything in my 1886 farm house leaked air, not just the windows. To find out what else leaks, I highly suggest doing your own home pressure test. This helped out a lot when I was looking for air leaks.

The next thing I would look into is closing off areas of your house that you don't need. 3200 sq/ft is a fair amount for 3 people. Closing off a room or two could really help out.

After that, I would perhaps kick the temp down a little bit. I run my house in the mid to high 60s. I don't know how your cohabitants feel about this, but it does save energy.

Other than that, I'm not sure how the heat pump disperses the heat through your house, but I've found (with my gas forced air system) that running ceiling fans helps out a ton to keep warm air mixed with the rest of the air in the room. The ceiling fan in my living room is pretty much going constantly all winter long just mixing air. If I don't do this, the ceiling gets 3 degrees F higher than chest level.

Thats all I got for now.
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Old 11-03-09, 04:14 PM   #3
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Thanks for having me, and the reply

The home pressure test will likely be difficult; the kitchen fan exhausts inside the room, and the bathrooms have no vents; fine with all the hardwood (100% of the house currently... including bathrooms and kitchen), but inconvenient for this purpose. I could set a fan in the door, however my wife is pregnant and more irritable than usual... I don't think I could swing having the door wide open in 0 degree weather while I ran around looking for leaks.

As to the temperature, I would love to turn it down. Unfortunately, it's a constant battle to keep it 'just' set to 70F, I think I'd be sleeping in the garage if I turned it down any more.

The furnace is forced air; I recently installed a ceiling fan in the reading room, which does help circulate the air to the rest of the house.

Even without the negative pressure, I'm hoping I can find some leaks with a wet rag and a little patience; that would be today's job. Thanks for the suggestions, and keep 'em coming! Most of the people I know just don't think too much about these kinda things, it's nice to talk to someone who cares about the topic.

Charlie
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Old 11-03-09, 06:19 PM   #4
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Welcome. I love old houses. We don't have too many around here.

Insulating the water heater and switching to low flow shower heads as well as adding aerators to the faucets (if they don't exist) may help.
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Old 11-03-09, 07:29 PM   #5
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If you can't do the pressure test, waiting for a windy day works pretty good too. The leaks will be much more pronounced in windy weather.

The heat is a common issue. I just suggest turning it down whenever you can (night/out of the house). The common saying that it takes more energy to heat the house back up vs keeping it warm all day is completely wrong and actually defies the laws of physics.

As far as other suggestions, since you have forced air, I would really look into getting a roll of aluminum tape and sealing your air ducts as much as possible. This is a horrible source of heat loss in some homes. Tape is cheap too!

DAP seal'n'peel is a good product for old leaky windows. I plan on putting some of this on mine this fall yet.
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Old 11-03-09, 11:16 PM   #6
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A jacket for the water heater isn't a bad idea; I always forget about that option. Ditto the duct sealing; I'd done it in my old place, I'm sure I have at least half a roll of foil tape around here somewhere.

Windy days aren't a problem per se. Local data says we average 5.78m/s winds near roof level... that'll be this weekend's chore. I have a couple night shifts to attend to first

I know the porch is a major problem; there are some major leaks in there I should be able to seal.

Charlie
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Old 11-04-09, 10:43 PM   #7
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Look up. No, seriously. Look up. Heat rises, right? So check how much of it is rising into areas of the house you don't use, such as the unfinished attic.

It can leak right through any uninsulated area almost as though there isn't anything there at all, it seems. I'm still working on my Father to do something with his leaky old double cinder block house, even though it's wood heated.

Changing your lighting to something that uses a little less energy would help as well, and maybe even just using small lamps instead of large overhead lights when the latter aren't necessary can make a big difference.

Where do you get your hot water from? If it's electricity, you might consider putting it on a HD timer or maybe just turning it off except for a couple hours a day. My Father's water heater runs only 60 mins a day, and makes enough hot water that I can still burn myself with it well into the next morning. It runs at 1200 every day, until 1300, and the temp is set to something like 120* I think. It's fairly low, just enough that you have to add some cold to it to make it comfortable. There is no jacket on the water heater, and it sits in a root cellar, which is uninsulated and usually stays right around 50-55*.
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Old 11-05-09, 10:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christ View Post
Look up. No, seriously. Look up. Heat rises, right?
Actually, heat does not rise, it travels in all directions.

Heated air rises. And you are correct that the air will stratify at the ceiling where it is least needed for comfort. Also the stratified heat at the ceiling makes for greater roof losses due to larger 'delta T'.

If we mis-conceptualize and think that heat rises we will overlook the substantial heat losses that occur downwards via conduction, from water heaters having no bottom insulation, from floors having insufficient insulation, basements, crawl spaces and foundations, all major leakers.

Respectfully,

-AC_Hacker
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Old 11-07-09, 02:16 AM   #9
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Well, I know the water tank is sitting on linoleum-over-concrete in the basement; it likely loses a good amount of heat that way, and it's a good idea to look into a timer. I wonder about the dishwasher though... it's a newer, efficient model, but I don't control when it runs. I do believe I'd be shot if I told my wife that we had to go back to hand washing, especially now that she's well into the second trimester.

I picked up a 4x8 sheet of solid insulation, that should be enough to fill the larger hole in the porch closet ceiling (wind literally blows from it), and the roof hatch in the atic. I'm still uncertain how to insulate the doors leading to the vented crawlspace up there. They open out into the room, and they're just wood plank. Nothing I can attach insulation onto to make a proper seal. I'll have to think on that one some more.

I've gotten quite handy with a caulking gun lately, that's for sure. If it looks like it warrants it, I'll take a few pictures to show what I'm looking at, someone may have dealt with a similar situation before.

Charlie
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Old 11-07-09, 08:24 AM   #10
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Definitly snap some pictures. They really help out with suggestions.

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