EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Solar Heating
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-24-11, 04:38 PM   #21
TimJFowler
Apprentice EcoRenovator
 
TimJFowler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 184
Thanks: 9
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Default

Permaflex looks like a promising tank liner. I'm also interested in hearing about some 'real-world' experience with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Moving forward, I have to get measurements of the exact envelope that I'm working in. I'll be designing another frame around the tank to hold the cellulose. It will be a very low cost design being framed in 2x4s or 2x2s and covered in construction plastic as much as possible. I'll then blow cellulose into this framing and that will give me my inexpensive insulation.
Why not go with XPS or other non-hygroscopic foam for the insulation? You wouldn't need to build a 2nd frame to hold the insulation and you avoid possible issues with water condensation in the cellulose.

Also, how will you be insulating the top and bottom of the tank?

Thanks for the write-up. I like seeing someone else's thought processes on a project like this.

Tim

__________________
- DIY Adventures in Applied Sustainability -

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
TimJFowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-11, 04:04 PM   #22
strider3700
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Posts: 745
Thanks: 23
Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts
Default

any of the foams are going to be much more expensive for the same r value. also depending on the temperature you're going to run the tank at you may need to go polyiso as the others melt at a lot closer to solar hot water temps.

Since my tank will be in ground foam was the only option. I think I could get away with any of the foamboards but I found used polyiso on for real cheap and bought a bunch.

Last edited by strider3700; 09-22-11 at 12:24 PM..
strider3700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-11, 08:08 AM   #23
Daox
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Strider is exactly right. The cellulose is quite a bit cheaper than rigid foam, and low cost is the reason why I'm using it. The frame will costvery little and be quite simple.

Directly under the 4x8 sheet of plywood for the tank, I'll be using multiple sheets of rigid foam. I know the first layer will be polyiso to take the heat, after that I'll go with whatever is cheaper which will probably be polystyrene.

The top will be similar to the bottom with at least one piece of rigid foam. I'm not exactly sure how the rest will be. I'm thinking I might make a frame and fill it with cellulose too, but we'll see.
__________________
Current project -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Daox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-11, 11:23 PM   #24
strider3700
Master EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Posts: 745
Thanks: 23
Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts
Default

can polystyrene handle the weight of the tank? I'm not sure but isn't that the white stuff with little beads? It compresses really easy compared to the pink or blue stuff which we put under slabs all the time.
strider3700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-11, 07:34 AM   #25
Daox
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
Default

They're actually both polystyrene. Expanded polystryene (eps) is the beady stuff, extruded polystryrene (xps) is the blue/pink foam. I'd be using xps. I forget the R value of EPS, but XPS is a fair amount better.
__________________
Current project -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Daox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 02:22 PM   #26
Solaris
Uber Effecient
 
Solaris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

Have you considered using a freezer as the container?

Used freezers are a great (free) metal box with a nice white finished look, have decent insulation to start, and a hinged sealing lid.

The freezer can be enhanced by lining the inside with 1" rigid foam, and a one-piece EDPM liner, glued up above the water line, and a floating pool-blanket to reduce air convection loss.

Size can easily be in the 150-200 gallon range, which is fine for solar preheat. If your floor is cement, you could stack two, and have passive thermo-syphon heat the top tank.

There are liquid transport "totes" that hold 500 gallons, have a metal cage frame with a platic liner, and can be picked up cheap.
__________________
Solaris

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Solaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-11, 03:09 PM   #27
Daox
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
Default

The only concern I have with a freezer is the plastics they use in them. I'm not sure what they use and how they'd hold up to very hot water. Same goes for the totes.
__________________
Current project -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Daox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-11, 08:17 AM   #28
bennelson
Home-Wrecker
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 546
Thanks: 3
Thanked 165 Times in 96 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
.

There are liquid transport "totes" that hold 500 gallons, have a metal cage frame with a platic liner, and can be picked up cheap.
Trouble with those is that they don't fit through doors!

I had sort of the same issue working on my home graywater laundry to toilet system - I was limited by the accessway to my crawlspace.

With a "Built" water container, parts can be carried down through narrow basement stairs and assembled in place.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bennelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-11, 09:19 AM   #29
zick
Helper EcoRenovator
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 42
Thanks: 2
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

How's this coming along?
zick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-11, 09:38 AM   #30
Daox
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 5,525
Thanks: 1,162
Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts
Default

I haven't had any time to work on it.

I did measure out the area that it'll be going and I think its going to have to be a bit smaller than I had hoped. We'll see though.

__________________
Current project -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
&
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Daox is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design