Simple Solar Cabin

skyl4rk · 09-17-10, 03:57 PM

YouTube - How to have a home with no house payments and no utility bills!

RobertSmalls · 09-18-10, 04:06 PM

There's a lot to like about that house. Skylark, I take it you have something like this in mind for your next home?

I like his 400ft² home. As he says, a smaller house is easier to clean, and cheaper to build, heat, and furnish. There's a lot of wasted space and overlap in a house with a seperate dining room, living room, and kitchen. I'm living in ~600ft² of an 800ft² home. Giving up another 200ft² would we difficult, though.

I think he has much less than 400ft² if you account for the intrusion of the roof into his upstairs space. Ideally, the ceiling should meet the walls 4' above the floor upstairs, which leaves you with enough room to put furniture including a bed up against the wall, and have much more space where one can walk upright in the middle. He also needs to do something about the pit trap in the bedroom floor.

If I were Solarcabin, the first thing I'd do is upgrade the electrical system. Get rid of the 12VDC equipment, and install a large inverter. Spending $1000 on a grid-tie inverter isn't the end of the world. Alternately, I'm sure he'd get a kick out of Ben Nelson's off-grid garage setup with a few batteries and a UPS powerful enough to run the microwave, toaster, OR the fridge. I would put things like the fridge and A/C on a circuit that you can switch off when you want to use the air compressor or microwave. Perhaps you could build a simple controller to switch certain appliances on and off based on load and battery state of charge.

There are some obvious downsides to Solarcabin's implementation. Foremost is his choice of location. If you want to be rural, you can, but it's expensive: He appears to need a truck due to the lack of good, paved roads leading to his home, I'm sure it's a long bicycle ride into town, and he has to get an expensive internet connection over the cell phone bands.

I can name a few things worth spending dozens or hundreds of square feet on: walls 12" thick with insulation, a full sized hot water tank and fridge entombed in insulation, a clothes washer indoors, and 400ft² of semi-conditioned space for a workshop and garage to store and plug in your car.

You can get cheap land in the city - abandoned lots ready for a foundation go for $5000, and suburban lots aren't too expensive, either. These lots have sewer, water, and internet hookups, which I see as efficient, inexpensive, and advantageous. What I'm suggesting is far less extreme than off-the-grid homesteading in a 400ft² cabin, but I bet it has a smaller carbon footprint, and a more comfortable, more social environment.

Ryland · 09-19-10, 12:29 PM

For a house that small I don't see why you wouldn't put everything on a single floor, if you twist your ankle or have a bad knee you can't get in to your bed room.
I do however agree with the idea of not having lots of rooms that only have a single use, a kitchen counter with a good over hang can have seating around it for eating at, join that in to an open sitting room, living room and a bed room needs little more then a bed and a closest.
One thing that I found opens up alot of space is not having a TV, we like to watch a movie once a week or so, so I have a micro projector that sits on a tripod and lives behind the couch when not in use with a pull down window shade that works as a screen.

skyl4rk · 09-19-10, 07:26 PM

I have a very comfortable 2000 sf home in a popular resort town, with a 40 foot boat dock just down the road. I doubt I would be able to get my wife to move to a solarcabin.

I am fascinated with designing a home which runs on solar heat and power, with some woodburner assistance. I would not mind owning a cabin like that, but I don't think I will ever have the opportunity to live in one long term. It is a fascination similar to enjoying backpacking or living aboard a sailboat. While I can not do it, maybe someone else will be inspired or get some ideas.

gasstingy · 09-20-10, 07:59 AM

Love the idea of being self sufficient, but I'm not that dedicated. I am, by his definition, a slave to my mortgage and the utility company. I am working on helping both though. I pay a bit extra each month on the mortgage and I'm building a solar array to cure the utility bill problem.

For his cabin, I'd try to splurge on good quality windows in the initial install. They aren't too much fun to replace by yourself if you have to remove the siding to remove and replace them. At about $150.00 each for the vinyl windows with low-e coating in my garage / workhop project, they would save a bit of labor later and propane sooner, as well as cozy the place up a bit more.

Xringer · 09-21-10, 12:10 AM

Jeepers! We live in a small house, but our add-on den is bigger than that house..

I'm glad we have it paid for and have high efficiency heating&cooling to boot.
The Utility bills aren't that oppressive. A big chunk is our Fios hookup..

I think maybe I spend too much time indoors in the winter, to live in a smaller home..
Cabin fever, anyone?

Xringer · 01-22-11, 08:57 AM

Snow is my biggest PV problem this year.. And of course, not enough sunny days.

Yesterday, after the last big snow fall, the bottom panel on my tracker was stuck
in the big ice pack of snow that had slid off the panels during the last few storms.

After cleaning the panels and shoveling a trench to allow tracker rotation,
I realized that I couldn't reach the 3 small 10w panels on top.
Those will have to wait until the sun melts the snow off them. (April?)

Here's the before pic:

So, here's a few things I have learned, that might be helpful in snowy areas.

If the bottom of a post mounted array is only 2 feet off the ground,
you should clear out the snow under it after each snow storm.

If your fixed array mount is only about 3 feet off the ground,
be prepared for 4 feet of snow! (including slid-off).

Higher is better. Just watch out for wind loading.

I see almost no snow build up on two fixed panels. The lip on the bottom
is low profile and allows the snow to slide off. Vertical mounting is best.

There are two problems with the tracker. The 3 small panels should have
been mounted flush with the top panel. But instead, they are set back.
That ridge allows snow to pile up and stay. Those panels aren't working today.
(And it's sunny and a balmy 20 F).

The second tracker problem is the open center area. Snow collects there like crazy.
It piles up on the panel above it and covers the RedRock tracker board.

Conclusion:
Keep panel stacks tight. With no spaces between them.
Vertical mounting is best, since it allows the snow to slide off better.
A good PV install should look like a steep smooth surface to the snow.
Give the snow Nothing to hang on to..

In the small house video above, I see 7 panels. They appear to be set back from the
edge of the roof. Especially the center panel.
That little ridge is going to allow ice and snow to build up.

All of those panels should be mounted so their bottom edge is hanging out
over the edge of the roof edge.

Kinda like this:

Solar :: L-brackets picture by Xringer - Photobucket

Of course, when it rains you need your hat. There is no gutter.

philb · 01-22-11, 12:08 PM

I think this guy has the right idea. The cabin is small, but can fit current needs. Having it paid for has security.

Live within your means and save the cash for retirement and other things that come up. I think that's the idea he's trying to get across. The third world countries are still mostly cash and carry and are in much better shape financially than others. Enough soap box.

Some of my favorite books on the subject are "The Owner Built Home by Ken Kern and "Barefoot Architect" by Johan van Lengen. Both are still available on Amazon.com.

I am currently building my third home. The little things like snow on the panels can make a big difference later.
My water heating solar panels will be mounted on a vertical south facing wall. It won't be as efficient as 36 3/4 degree slope that's optimum, but a lot less trouble. No snow to obstruct and it should limit the radiation they get in the summer when they are not used for space heating.

I am still debating about the solar trackers for electricity. Unless the tracker is built with strong motor and gears that can crush ice, they would not be of much benefit where I live.

01-22-11, 08:57 AM	#7
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Solar install planning Snow is my biggest PV problem this year.. And of course, not enough sunny days. Yesterday, after the last big snow fall, the bottom panel on my tracker was stuck in the big ice pack of snow that had slid off the panels during the last few storms. After cleaning the panels and shoveling a trench to allow tracker rotation, I realized that I couldn't reach the 3 small 10w panels on top. Those will have to wait until the sun melts the snow off them. (April?) Here's the before pic: So, here's a few things I have learned, that might be helpful in snowy areas. If the bottom of a post mounted array is only 2 feet off the ground, you should clear out the snow under it after each snow storm. If your fixed array mount is only about 3 feet off the ground, be prepared for 4 feet of snow! (including slid-off). Higher is better. Just watch out for wind loading. I see almost no snow build up on two fixed panels. The lip on the bottom is low profile and allows the snow to slide off. Vertical mounting is best. There are two problems with the tracker. The 3 small panels should have been mounted flush with the top panel. But instead, they are set back. That ridge allows snow to pile up and stay. Those panels aren't working today. (And it's sunny and a balmy 20 F). The second tracker problem is the open center area. Snow collects there like crazy. It piles up on the panel above it and covers the RedRock tracker board. Conclusion: Keep panel stacks tight. With no spaces between them. Vertical mounting is best, since it allows the snow to slide off better. A good PV install should look like a steep smooth surface to the snow. Give the snow Nothing to hang on to.. In the small house video above, I see 7 panels. They appear to be set back from the edge of the roof. Especially the center panel. That little ridge is going to allow ice and snow to build up. All of those panels should be mounted so their bottom edge is hanging out over the edge of the roof edge. Kinda like this: Solar :: L-brackets picture by Xringer - Photobucket Of course, when it rains you need your hat. There is no gutter.

09-18-10, 04:06 PM	#2
RobertSmalls Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: May 2009 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 344 Thanks: 3 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts	There's a lot to like about that house. Skylark, I take it you have something like this in mind for your next home? I like his 400ft² home. As he says, a smaller house is easier to clean, and cheaper to build, heat, and furnish. There's a lot of wasted space and overlap in a house with a seperate dining room, living room, and kitchen. I'm living in ~600ft² of an 800ft² home. Giving up another 200ft² would we difficult, though. I think he has much less than 400ft² if you account for the intrusion of the roof into his upstairs space. Ideally, the ceiling should meet the walls 4' above the floor upstairs, which leaves you with enough room to put furniture including a bed up against the wall, and have much more space where one can walk upright in the middle. He also needs to do something about the pit trap in the bedroom floor. If I were Solarcabin, the first thing I'd do is upgrade the electrical system. Get rid of the 12VDC equipment, and install a large inverter. Spending $1000 on a grid-tie inverter isn't the end of the world. Alternately, I'm sure he'd get a kick out of Ben Nelson's off-grid garage setup with a few batteries and a UPS powerful enough to run the microwave, toaster, OR the fridge. I would put things like the fridge and A/C on a circuit that you can switch off when you want to use the air compressor or microwave. Perhaps you could build a simple controller to switch certain appliances on and off based on load and battery state of charge. There are some obvious downsides to Solarcabin's implementation. Foremost is his choice of location. If you want to be rural, you can, but it's expensive: He appears to need a truck due to the lack of good, paved roads leading to his home, I'm sure it's a long bicycle ride into town, and he has to get an expensive internet connection over the cell phone bands. I can name a few things worth spending dozens or hundreds of square feet on: walls 12" thick with insulation, a full sized hot water tank and fridge entombed in insulation, a clothes washer indoors, and 400ft² of semi-conditioned space for a workshop and garage to store and plug in your car. You can get cheap land in the city - abandoned lots ready for a foundation go for $5000, and suburban lots aren't too expensive, either. These lots have sewer, water, and internet hookups, which I see as efficient, inexpensive, and advantageous. What I'm suggesting is far less extreme than off-the-grid homesteading in a 400ft² cabin, but I bet it has a smaller carbon footprint, and a more comfortable, more social environment.

09-19-10, 12:29 PM	#3
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	For a house that small I don't see why you wouldn't put everything on a single floor, if you twist your ankle or have a bad knee you can't get in to your bed room. I do however agree with the idea of not having lots of rooms that only have a single use, a kitchen counter with a good over hang can have seating around it for eating at, join that in to an open sitting room, living room and a bed room needs little more then a bed and a closest. One thing that I found opens up alot of space is not having a TV, we like to watch a movie once a week or so, so I have a micro projector that sits on a tripod and lives behind the couch when not in use with a pull down window shade that works as a screen.

09-19-10, 07:26 PM	#4
skyl4rk Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 66 Thanks: 3 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I have a very comfortable 2000 sf home in a popular resort town, with a 40 foot boat dock just down the road. I doubt I would be able to get my wife to move to a solarcabin. I am fascinated with designing a home which runs on solar heat and power, with some woodburner assistance. I would not mind owning a cabin like that, but I don't think I will ever have the opportunity to live in one long term. It is a fascination similar to enjoying backpacking or living aboard a sailboat. While I can not do it, maybe someone else will be inspired or get some ideas.

09-20-10, 07:59 AM	#5
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	Love the idea of being self sufficient, but I'm not that dedicated. I am, by his definition, a slave to my mortgage and the utility company. I am working on helping both though. I pay a bit extra each month on the mortgage and I'm building a solar array to cure the utility bill problem. For his cabin, I'd try to splurge on good quality windows in the initial install. They aren't too much fun to replace by yourself if you have to remove the siding to remove and replace them. At about $150.00 each for the vinyl windows with low-e coating in my garage / workhop project, they would save a bit of labor later and propane sooner, as well as cozy the place up a bit more.

09-21-10, 12:10 AM	#6
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Jeepers! We live in a small house, but our add-on den is bigger than that house.. I'm glad we have it paid for and have high efficiency heating&cooling to boot. The Utility bills aren't that oppressive. A big chunk is our Fios hookup.. I think maybe I spend too much time indoors in the winter, to live in a smaller home.. Cabin fever, anyone?

01-22-11, 12:08 PM	#8
philb Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Oklahoma City Posts: 155 Thanks: 58 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	I think this guy has the right idea. The cabin is small, but can fit current needs. Having it paid for has security. Live within your means and save the cash for retirement and other things that come up. I think that's the idea he's trying to get across. The third world countries are still mostly cash and carry and are in much better shape financially than others. Enough soap box. Some of my favorite books on the subject are "The Owner Built Home by Ken Kern and "Barefoot Architect" by Johan van Lengen. Both are still available on Amazon.com. I am currently building my third home. The little things like snow on the panels can make a big difference later. My water heating solar panels will be mounted on a vertical south facing wall. It won't be as efficient as 36 3/4 degree slope that's optimum, but a lot less trouble. No snow to obstruct and it should limit the radiation they get in the summer when they are not used for space heating. I am still debating about the solar trackers for electricity. Unless the tracker is built with strong motor and gears that can crush ice, they would not be of much benefit where I live.