Propane (R-290) for heat pumps?

[ICanHas]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

But then you illustrate your post with photos that have nothing at all to do with your point.

What are you trying to say?

What do these disconnected photos have to do with this thread?

If you just want explosion photos...

-AC

The extent of damage LPG in the quantity used in an AC is capable of doing is system is not disconnected.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by ICanHas

The extent of damage LPG in the quantity used in an AC is capable of doing is system is not disconnected.

Out of curiosity, do you have any idea how many refrigerators are currently using organic refrigerants in the world?

-AC

[ICanHas]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

Out of curiosity, do you have any idea how many refrigerators are currently using organic refrigerants in the world?

-AC

That'd be 99.99%+ of all refrigerators. R-768 SO2 units are very rare historical pieces now and those using CO2 are far and few in between and ammonia is only used in absorption units and large scale industrial refrigeration.

CO2 contains carbon, but by convention, it is considered inorganic.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by ICanHas

That'd be 99.99%+ of all refrigerators. R-768 SO2 units are very rare historical pieces now and those using CO2 are far and few in between and ammonia is only used in absorption units and large scale industrial refrigeration.

The answer is over 300,000,000 refrigerators are now using some kind of flammable, organic refrigerant.

I am very curious if you are intending to save 300,000,000 refrigerator owners from harm, or if you want to make sure that the number does not go to 300,000,001?

Either way, it's a very big job.

-AC

[ICanHas]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

The answer is over 300,000,000 refrigerators are now using some kind of flammable, organic refrigerant.

I am very curious if you are intending to save 300,000,000 refrigerator owners from harm, or if you want to make sure that the number does not go to 300,000,001?

Either way, it's a very big job.

-AC

That's not what you originally said. You said organic. Now you're saying organic and flammable.

[NiHaoMike]

He is, for some reason, against the whole idea of hydrocarbon refrigerants. I suspect he has some connection to the fluorocarbon industry even if he doesn't want to admit it. Yet he doesn't seem to be concerned about all those hobby LiPo (lithium polymer) batteries that are now literally available to anyone.

[ICanHas]

I suspect you has some connections with HD-5 fuel gas turd polishing marketing industry.

[NiHaoMike]

I have connections with the open source community, particularly when it has to do with energy efficiency.

[ICanHas]

And all evidence points to efficiency difference between R22 and R290 is splitting hairs when you take away the unfair advantages gained by increasing the relative coil size by reducing capacity.

Using a compressor that delivers the same capacity as R22 under same conditions narrows the difference to hair splitting.

When same sized coils and AHU gets substantially superior COP with R290 at same capacity, that's when there's a real advantage. So far, this is not the case. If the system used an open drive type and you changed pulleys to drop capacity to match that of R-290, R-22 would have the same advantage.

The higher/lower capacity refrigerant is a matter of retrofit consideration, but it is not an indication of better/worse refrigerant.

I believe a good test here would be testing with an open drive compressor and adjustable sheaves (or a a hydrostatic transmission) to modulate the speed and acquire the mechanical input using a torque transducer to calculate the input power while the system is made to deliver the same capacity against the same evaporation/condensation conditions.

[NiHaoMike]

What do you propose given that R22 is being phased out? What alternative do you suggest that can match R290 (and other hydrocarbons) for efficiency?