Propane (R-290) for heat pumps? - Page 12

Ko_deZ · 10-28-11, 01:28 PM

Hi again. Yes, they ship to Norway, but as mentioned, there is no way of shipping pressurized flammable gas in normal mail. I got some info on the "BBQ" propane used here though. Hjem - | AGA Norge deliver this, and their propane is 95% pure, with no moisture in it at all. Sounds like a winner. If not, they will custom make the gas to my specification if that is necessary, but I think the cheap kind will do. I have a couple of 11kg containers of those anyway, so easy to fix.

What I just figured out is a problem though, is that the vacuum pump and hoses I have borrowed is for R410a for mini-splits, and the service valves I have bought are not fitting the connectors. The ones I have are named T36, and are a lot smaller than what the connectors on the tubes are. What now? Can I not use this pump? Is there a conversion thingy? I found this:
SAMSUNG *ALL MINI-SPLIT A/C R410a Adapter Low-Side | eBay
But it seems that it is the wrong way. Any ideas/ebay links?

Thanks!

Xringer · 10-28-11, 01:55 PM

That unit is the one I got for my Sanyo. I also have another one (got it free) that has a valve.
Ebay # 400224827224 I really like the cut-off, when doing a pump down.
It allows all the gas to be sucked (back into the system) from the gauge set and all hoses.

Not sure what a T36 looks like. Can you post photos?

Here's my old Sanyo / (SamSung AD87) connector..

Ko_deZ · 10-28-11, 02:07 PM

Here is where I got it:
T36-5 5/16" Serviceventil - Moderne Kjøling AS
I see that they also have these r410 converter things, but they go from 1/4 to 5/16. the threads on the valve I have is certainly wider than 1/4, and the one on the vacuum pump is more like 5/8, but for all I know, 1/4 might be the measure of the tube it normally connects to, and that the valve itself is a bit wider. From the link on top, it seems that the valve is about the same width as the copper pipe, which would make it 5/16, and then a conversion down to 1/4 would be meaningless, but as I said, I don't know how this stuff works.

Xringer · 10-28-11, 04:55 PM

Maybe you need a 1/4" adapter, so you can use an R410A gauge set with your vac pump.

My vac pump came with two connections (with caps).
The small 1/4" connection is the only one I've used.

I don't have any hose that fits the large top connector.

An adapter was included with my vac pump. It's another odd size, that I didn't need. Nothing fits it.

I guess this pump was sold to be used on a few different systems..?.

AC_Hacker · 10-29-11, 02:25 PM

Hi Ko_deZ,

I'm sure that some things are different in Norway, and some things are the same, so I'll speak to how things are here and you can use what is helpful and disregard the rest...

The standard HVAC fitting for very many years was 1/4" flare fittings. They were so standard, there was no point in specifying what kind of fitting, you just said "fitting".

The trend now is to use a different lind of fitting for every kind of gas. I guess that the idea is to prevent the inadvertent mixing of refrigeration gasses.

Since I am building custom machines, I have gone back to the 1/4" fitting, since I have decided what kind of gas I'll be using, and probably more importantly, there is a higher availability of these fittings, and also a wealth of cheap, used equipment that use these fittings. So it is so clear to me, that when I build equipment or tools, that I will use the same kind of fittings throughout.

This way, I will not have the problem you are having, with trying to find exactly the right adapter to use.

In short, since you are making your own machines, make it the way you want it.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

Ko_deZ · 10-29-11, 03:55 PM

Xringer, yes, that top fat one, that is the same as on the vacuum pump and hoses. Used for R410a here. So the other one is 1/4 then? Excellent, then the other one is probably 5/16, which is the only conversion thingy that renkulde.no is selling. I will get one of those then.

AC_hacker, of course I make my machine like I want it. The problem is that I cannot very well start hacking on my friends vacuum pump because I want to do my own thing. I will be going for the 1/4 valves though. I cannot imagine there being a downside to that.

Xringer · 10-29-11, 04:57 PM

The little one on the lower left in the pictures, is the standard 1/4" flare used on most everything.
Used on tanks of R410A, vac gauges, hoses, filters & etc.
(And the 1/4" line-set connection on my Sanyo units).

I have the SAMSUNG *ALL MINI-SPLIT A/C R410a Adapter Low-Side | eBay adapter
(ProSet AD87) 1/4" M to 1/2-20 F, that fits on the service port of most R410A mini-splits (in the USA anyways).

My 15150 vac pump, http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ro...5300_15150.pdf
Came with 1/4" & 3/8" flare intake ports, and one unknown adapter.

Hey! The write-ups say "1/2 inch ACME and 1/4 inch MFL intake fitting", Comes with the 15150..

So the Fat connection is the 1/2" ACME and the add-on adapter
that fits on top of it, brings it down to a 3/8" flare fitting..

The 1/2" ACME is for R12/R134A.... Mystery elSolveO..

Ko_deZ · 10-29-11, 06:09 PM

Excellent stuff. Then the local shop carries the conversion unit I need. Thanks for all the help so far!

Xringer · 11-19-11, 08:33 PM

I've replaced my BBQ this week. The old one is headed for the metal recycle truck..
But, before its gone, I removed the hose (& tank connection-regulator).

I'm wondering, what is the pressure these BBQ regulators output??
Seems like it's 15 to 20 PSI.. Just hearing the hisssss.

PS:
I already have a fill-adapter.
http://youtu.be/xKCYIOnxwkg

Geo NR Gee · 11-21-11, 12:27 PM

We are preparing to use the R290 (22a) in an outdoor ASHP soon, I need to figure out the amount to install.

According to the Enviro-Safe instructions: Each ounce of Enviro-Safe 22a Refrigerant is equivalent to 2.5 ounces of R22. That would mean a system that normally holds 200 oz. should now be evacuated and filled with ____oz.?

This should be a simple math question. I think that you take 200 oz. divide 2.5 = 80 oz.

According to the folks at Enviro-Safe, I should also check the pressure from the manufacturer and match it to that.

Next is to research the proper method of removing the old R22......

10-29-11, 02:25 PM	#115
AC_Hacker Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 4,004 Thanks: 303 Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts	Hi Ko_deZ, I'm sure that some things are different in Norway, and some things are the same, so I'll speak to how things are here and you can use what is helpful and disregard the rest... The standard HVAC fitting for very many years was 1/4" flare fittings. They were so standard, there was no point in specifying what kind of fitting, you just said "fitting". The trend now is to use a different lind of fitting for every kind of gas. I guess that the idea is to prevent the inadvertent mixing of refrigeration gasses. Since I am building custom machines, I have gone back to the 1/4" fitting, since I have decided what kind of gas I'll be using, and probably more importantly, there is a higher availability of these fittings, and also a wealth of cheap, used equipment that use these fittings. So it is so clear to me, that when I build equipment or tools, that I will use the same kind of fittings throughout. This way, I will not have the problem you are having, with trying to find exactly the right adapter to use. In short, since you are making your own machines, make it the way you want it. Regards, -AC_Hacker __________________ I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker... Last edited by AC_Hacker; 10-29-11 at 02:30 PM..

11-19-11, 08:33 PM	#119
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I've replaced my BBQ this week. The old one is headed for the metal recycle truck.. But, before its gone, I removed the hose (& tank connection-regulator). I'm wondering, what is the pressure these BBQ regulators output?? Seems like it's 15 to 20 PSI.. Just hearing the hisssss. PS: I already have a fill-adapter. http://youtu.be/xKCYIOnxwkg __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less.. Last edited by Xringer; 11-19-11 at 08:40 PM..

10-28-11, 01:28 PM	#111
Ko_deZ Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Hi again. Yes, they ship to Norway, but as mentioned, there is no way of shipping pressurized flammable gas in normal mail. I got some info on the "BBQ" propane used here though. Hjem - \| AGA Norge deliver this, and their propane is 95% pure, with no moisture in it at all. Sounds like a winner. If not, they will custom make the gas to my specification if that is necessary, but I think the cheap kind will do. I have a couple of 11kg containers of those anyway, so easy to fix. What I just figured out is a problem though, is that the vacuum pump and hoses I have borrowed is for R410a for mini-splits, and the service valves I have bought are not fitting the connectors. The ones I have are named T36, and are a lot smaller than what the connectors on the tubes are. What now? Can I not use this pump? Is there a conversion thingy? I found this: SAMSUNG *ALL MINI-SPLIT A/C R410a Adapter Low-Side \| eBay But it seems that it is the wrong way. Any ideas/ebay links? Thanks!

10-28-11, 01:55 PM	#112
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	That unit is the one I got for my Sanyo. I also have another one (got it free) that has a valve. Ebay # 400224827224 I really like the cut-off, when doing a pump down. It allows all the gas to be sucked (back into the system) from the gauge set and all hoses. Not sure what a T36 looks like. Can you post photos? Here's my old Sanyo / (SamSung AD87) connector..

10-28-11, 02:07 PM	#113
Ko_deZ Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Here is where I got it: T36-5 5/16" Serviceventil - Moderne Kjøling AS I see that they also have these r410 converter things, but they go from 1/4 to 5/16. the threads on the valve I have is certainly wider than 1/4, and the one on the vacuum pump is more like 5/8, but for all I know, 1/4 might be the measure of the tube it normally connects to, and that the valve itself is a bit wider. From the link on top, it seems that the valve is about the same width as the copper pipe, which would make it 5/16, and then a conversion down to 1/4 would be meaningless, but as I said, I don't know how this stuff works.

10-28-11, 04:55 PM	#114
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Maybe you need a 1/4" adapter, so you can use an R410A gauge set with your vac pump. My vac pump came with two connections (with caps). The small 1/4" connection is the only one I've used. I don't have any hose that fits the large top connector. An adapter was included with my vac pump. It's another odd size, that I didn't need. Nothing fits it. I guess this pump was sold to be used on a few different systems..?.

10-29-11, 03:55 PM	#116
Ko_deZ Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Xringer, yes, that top fat one, that is the same as on the vacuum pump and hoses. Used for R410a here. So the other one is 1/4 then? Excellent, then the other one is probably 5/16, which is the only conversion thingy that renkulde.no is selling. I will get one of those then. AC_hacker, of course I make my machine like I want it. The problem is that I cannot very well start hacking on my friends vacuum pump because I want to do my own thing. I will be going for the 1/4 valves though. I cannot imagine there being a downside to that.

10-29-11, 04:57 PM	#117
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	The little one on the lower left in the pictures, is the standard 1/4" flare used on most everything. Used on tanks of R410A, vac gauges, hoses, filters & etc. (And the 1/4" line-set connection on my Sanyo units). I have the SAMSUNG ALL MINI-SPLIT A/C R410a Adapter Low-Side \| eBay adapter (ProSet AD87) 1/4" M to 1/2-20 F,* that fits on the service port of most R410A mini-splits (in the USA anyways). My 15150 vac pump, http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/ro...5300_15150.pdf Came with 1/4" & 3/8" flare intake ports, and one unknown adapter. Hey! The write-ups say "1/2 inch ACME and 1/4 inch MFL intake fitting", Comes with the 15150.. So the Fat connection is the 1/2" ACME and the add-on adapter that fits on top of it, brings it down to a 3/8" flare fitting.. The 1/2" ACME is for R12/R134A.... Mystery elSolveO..

10-29-11, 06:09 PM	#118
Ko_deZ Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Norway Posts: 63 Thanks: 3 Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts	Excellent stuff. Then the local shop carries the conversion unit I need. Thanks for all the help so far!

11-21-11, 12:27 PM	#120
Geo NR Gee Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Seattle Posts: 326 Thanks: 109 Thanked 23 Times in 18 Posts	We are preparing to use the R290 (22a) in an outdoor ASHP soon, I need to figure out the amount to install. According to the Enviro-Safe instructions: Each ounce of Enviro-Safe 22a Refrigerant is equivalent to 2.5 ounces of R22. That would mean a system that normally holds 200 oz. should now be evacuated and filled with ____oz.? This should be a simple math question. I think that you take 200 oz. divide 2.5 = 80 oz. According to the folks at Enviro-Safe, I should also check the pressure from the manufacturer and match it to that. Next is to research the proper method of removing the old R22......