Electric Vehicle (Nissan Leaf experience/impressions) - Page 3

gasstingy · 07-15-16, 01:50 PM

And, yes I am interested in how the battery degradation issue I read so much about on the Leaf Forum affects you.

There sometimes seems to be an exaggeration of facts, and from people who may not have any "skin-in-the-game."

Thanks!

WyrTwister · 07-15-16, 02:00 PM

Brand new , they are suppose to be around 80 miles for the older ones w/ 24 kwh battery . Newest ones have a 30 something kwh battery & are said to have 100 mile range or a little more .

Mine ( 2012 model with 31,000 - 32,000 miles ) shows around 73 miles on the GOM ( Guess O Meter ).

The battery pack does not have an active cooling system . Heat degrades the battery . To some degree . More heat , degrades faster .

My Leaf has 10 battery bars . Are you up to speed on the battery bars ?

The newer Leafs are suppose to have the Lizard battery that is more tolerant of heat .

God bless
Wyr

gasstingy · 07-15-16, 02:47 PM

Without researching all over again right now, IIRC, the Leaf had 12 bars when new. The first bar falls away at ~ 12 - 13% capacity loss and then subsequent bars at ~ 6.5% increments.

So, if your car had ~ 80 miles range new, then you should have somewhere between 60 - 65 miles max range now, based on much of bar 10s capacity has been used up.

A quote I remember along the way {sadly, without remembering the source} said to expect 70% available battery capacity at 8 (or 10?) years normal usage.

Additionally, I read to expect only 70% of good weather range in cold weather conditions where you needed to run the heater, regardless of who makes the EV.

And, thanks! for the picture with the labels to tell me exactly which display items are the capacity bars.

WyrTwister · 07-15-16, 03:00 PM

Best I remember 8 bars represent 70% capacity .

Being summer , the climate control is set on A/C . You can watch the GOM & switch the climate control off and on & the number on the GOM changes .

Have no experience , yet , with heater .

God bless
Wyr

WyrTwister · 07-15-16, 03:05 PM

PDF File .

Quick reference .

God bless
Wyr

gasstingy · 07-15-16, 03:08 PM

THANKS! That should give me something to pore over.....

WyrTwister · 07-15-16, 03:20 PM

More pdf's .

God bless
Wyr

pinballlooking · 07-15-16, 03:35 PM

A few years ago I was not sure who had the best battery management Leaf or Volt.

Leaf simple air cooled or Volts water cooled and heated battery packs.
In warm climates Chevy’s Volts water cooled and heated battery packs win hands down.

It would be interesting to see a study in moderate climates because water cooled is more expensive and complicated.

WyrTwister · 07-15-16, 05:49 PM

From what I have found out on the internet , the Leaf battery works well in more northern climates .

The class action lawsuit was brought by Leaf owners in Arizona . They were experiencing accelerated battery degrading .

I can not speak very much as far as the Volt battery situation . I have , however , done some research on the Chevy Spark EV . ( It may be similar to the Volt ? )

The Spark EV has an active thermal management system for the battery . Dexcool GM orange coolant is user to hear or cool the battery . If cooling is needed , the A/C compressor is run , cooling the Dexcool , which is circulated through the battery cooling system . I am guessing , when the battery needs warming , the Dexcool is warmed , bit it is just a guess . There may be heating elements installed in the battery pack .

My understanding is the Spark EV battery is not affected very much by heat .

Evidently , this thermal management system works well . As such , I do not know , but suspect the up coming Chevy Bolt will probably use some form of this system ?

The Bolt is projected to have 200 mile ( or better ) range .

God bless
Wyr

PS It seems some variations of lithium battery chemistry is more heat tolerant than others . I think the 2015 Leafs got a newer " lizard " battery which is suppose to be more heat tolerant ?

The early 24 kwh batteries that get replaced by Nissan ( whether on Nissan's dime or the customer's dime ) are suppose to be " Lizard " batteries .

randen · 07-30-16, 12:17 PM

I'm a little late getting to the party here but I've been occupied. And yes although not really related to home energy and efficiencies but its a huge game changer for family transportation.

We now have two in our laneway and the one I'm most excited about is the Chevy S-10 EV This is the brother to the famous EV-1 that GM made back in the 1997-1998. See the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" its an eye opener. GM made about 2000 EV-1 s and leased them to some high profile actors and people. After the leases had run out GM recalled all these perfectly operating electric vehicles and crushed them much to the dismay of the owners. WOW

GM also made about 450 S-10 EV pick-up trucks which have the same drive train. However through some bungled Lease/Purchase agreements about 50 escaped the crusher. GM had done a beautiful job with this vehicle. The motor control and thermal management is amazing. ALL, ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE THE TESLA. 20 YEARS EARLIER THAN TESLA!!!

What a head start GM had!!!

I had purchased the truck non functioning The DC-DC power supply had failed and since GM had crushed the project you can't get parts. And worst there is no technical information other than service manuals. I had replaced the DC-DC with an off the shelf unit however through the CAN-Buss where all components communicate the new DC-DC still wouldn't allow the truck to operate.

I now had to take the long and difficult road of replacing all the circuits with our own. The motor drive was a DIY kit but the IGBT (big power transistors) drivers where designed by a good friend of mine. The onboard charger is a from a chevy volt. The paddle charge was changed to the current tech J1772 so I can charge the truck anywhere.

The batteries which everyone worries about after 17 yrs. Still have life. The truck came already converted from lead acid to the famous. Ovonic cells (Nimh) The trucks range is not what I would like so I'm going to change them out to two chevy volt packs. But still after 17yrs a viable battery who knew. I'm planning to have a 120 mile range per charge.

The truck is extremely peppy it will spin the tires and do a burn-out. Boy if I had one of these when I was a kid!!! Gotta Love the torque of an electric motor. I've kept all the original housings so if you open the hood you cannot tell its my circuit boards inside. Completely OEM appearance.

The newer tech may allow me to tune the motor drive a little better and the large transistors maybe a little more efficient than the original circa 1997 IGBTs.

Now maybe another question fellow Ecorenovators may wonder the increase in the electric power bill. I have been tracking my bills since 2008 and since I've been charging the two vehicles I can't see any change in-fact: with my constant efforts towards home efficiency my bill for the last 6 months is lower than many proceeding years. I know I'll raise a few eyebrows but its like I'm driving for free. My gasoline bill for a year is approx. $4000.00

If you have been on the fence EV s are great and you'll never regret having one.

Randen

07-15-16, 02:00 PM	#22
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	Brand new , they are suppose to be around 80 miles for the older ones w/ 24 kwh battery . Newest ones have a 30 something kwh battery & are said to have 100 mile range or a little more . Mine ( 2012 model with 31,000 - 32,000 miles ) shows around 73 miles on the GOM ( Guess O Meter ). The battery pack does not have an active cooling system . Heat degrades the battery . To some degree . More heat , degrades faster . My Leaf has 10 battery bars . Are you up to speed on the battery bars ? The newer Leafs are suppose to have the Lizard battery that is more tolerant of heat . God bless Wyr Attached Thumbnails

07-15-16, 03:35 PM	#28
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	A few years ago I was not sure who had the best battery management Leaf or Volt. Leaf simple air cooled or Volts water cooled and heated battery packs. In warm climates Chevy’s Volts water cooled and heated battery packs win hands down. It would be interesting to see a study in moderate climates because water cooled is more expensive and complicated. __________________ Current project Aquaponics system , Passive Solar Greenhouse build To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Solar Install 12.5 Kwh- To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Mini Split installs - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. EV Chevy Volt - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

07-30-16, 12:17 PM	#30
randen Uber EcoRenovator Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Strathroy Ontario Canada Posts: 657 Thanks: 9 Thanked 191 Times in 129 Posts	Electric Vehicle I'm a little late getting to the party here but I've been occupied. And yes although not really related to home energy and efficiencies but its a huge game changer for family transportation. We now have two in our laneway and the one I'm most excited about is the Chevy S-10 EV This is the brother to the famous EV-1 that GM made back in the 1997-1998. See the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" its an eye opener. GM made about 2000 EV-1 s and leased them to some high profile actors and people. After the leases had run out GM recalled all these perfectly operating electric vehicles and crushed them much to the dismay of the owners. WOW GM also made about 450 S-10 EV pick-up trucks which have the same drive train. However through some bungled Lease/Purchase agreements about 50 escaped the crusher. GM had done a beautiful job with this vehicle. The motor control and thermal management is amazing. ALL, ALMOST EXACTLY LIKE THE TESLA. 20 YEARS EARLIER THAN TESLA!!! What a head start GM had!!! I had purchased the truck non functioning The DC-DC power supply had failed and since GM had crushed the project you can't get parts. And worst there is no technical information other than service manuals. I had replaced the DC-DC with an off the shelf unit however through the CAN-Buss where all components communicate the new DC-DC still wouldn't allow the truck to operate. I now had to take the long and difficult road of replacing all the circuits with our own. The motor drive was a DIY kit but the IGBT (big power transistors) drivers where designed by a good friend of mine. The onboard charger is a from a chevy volt. The paddle charge was changed to the current tech J1772 so I can charge the truck anywhere. The batteries which everyone worries about after 17 yrs. Still have life. The truck came already converted from lead acid to the famous. Ovonic cells (Nimh) The trucks range is not what I would like so I'm going to change them out to two chevy volt packs. But still after 17yrs a viable battery who knew. I'm planning to have a 120 mile range per charge. The truck is extremely peppy it will spin the tires and do a burn-out. Boy if I had one of these when I was a kid!!! Gotta Love the torque of an electric motor. I've kept all the original housings so if you open the hood you cannot tell its my circuit boards inside. Completely OEM appearance. The newer tech may allow me to tune the motor drive a little better and the large transistors maybe a little more efficient than the original circa 1997 IGBTs. Now maybe another question fellow Ecorenovators may wonder the increase in the electric power bill. I have been tracking my bills since 2008 and since I've been charging the two vehicles I can't see any change in-fact: with my constant efforts towards home efficiency my bill for the last 6 months is lower than many proceeding years. I know I'll raise a few eyebrows but its like I'm driving for free. My gasoline bill for a year is approx. $4000.00 If you have been on the fence EV s are great and you'll never regret having one. Randen Attached Thumbnails

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07-15-16, 01:50 PM	#21
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	And, yes I am interested in how the battery degradation issue I read so much about on the Leaf Forum affects you. There sometimes seems to be an exaggeration of facts, and from people who may not have any "skin-in-the-game." Thanks!

07-15-16, 02:47 PM	#23
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	Without researching all over again right now, IIRC, the Leaf had 12 bars when new. The first bar falls away at ~ 12 - 13% capacity loss and then subsequent bars at ~ 6.5% increments. So, if your car had ~ 80 miles range new, then you should have somewhere between 60 - 65 miles max range now, based on much of bar 10s capacity has been used up. A quote I remember along the way {sadly, without remembering the source} said to expect 70% available battery capacity at 8 (or 10?) years normal usage. Additionally, I read to expect only 70% of good weather range in cold weather conditions where you needed to run the heater, regardless of who makes the EV. And, thanks! for the picture with the labels to tell me exactly which display items are the capacity bars.

07-15-16, 03:00 PM	#24
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	Best I remember 8 bars represent 70% capacity . Being summer , the climate control is set on A/C . You can watch the GOM & switch the climate control off and on & the number on the GOM changes . Have no experience , yet , with heater . God bless Wyr

07-15-16, 03:08 PM	#26
gasstingy Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Arab, AL Posts: 491 Thanks: 109 Thanked 49 Times in 43 Posts	THANKS! That should give me something to pore over.....

07-15-16, 05:49 PM	#29
WyrTwister Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 6 Thanked 44 Times in 38 Posts	From what I have found out on the internet , the Leaf battery works well in more northern climates . The class action lawsuit was brought by Leaf owners in Arizona . They were experiencing accelerated battery degrading . I can not speak very much as far as the Volt battery situation . I have , however , done some research on the Chevy Spark EV . ( It may be similar to the Volt ? ) The Spark EV has an active thermal management system for the battery . Dexcool GM orange coolant is user to hear or cool the battery . If cooling is needed , the A/C compressor is run , cooling the Dexcool , which is circulated through the battery cooling system . I am guessing , when the battery needs warming , the Dexcool is warmed , bit it is just a guess . There may be heating elements installed in the battery pack . My understanding is the Spark EV battery is not affected very much by heat . Evidently , this thermal management system works well . As such , I do not know , but suspect the up coming Chevy Bolt will probably use some form of this system ? The Bolt is projected to have 200 mile ( or better ) range . God bless Wyr PS It seems some variations of lithium battery chemistry is more heat tolerant than others . I think the 2015 Leafs got a newer " lizard " battery which is suppose to be more heat tolerant ? The early 24 kwh batteries that get replaced by Nissan ( whether on Nissan's dime or the customer's dime ) are suppose to be " Lizard " batteries .