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Old 11-30-15, 05:30 PM   #151
MEMPHIS91
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Len, you have said exactly what I have been thinking all day. The oil issue is a real concern, making a 2 stage compressor much more attractive. And I don't mind going that route unless variable speed is incrediblely that much better. I will continue trying to find more info on the diffence in efficiencies. My thoughts are that every time the unit starts up everything is different, inside temp, inside humidity, water temp and matching exactly what the house needs every time it starts up is the key to comfort and efficiency.
The DC brushless just didn't look ready yet, and I can save on my power bills enough to pay for it by the time it comes out, or I can find one.

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Old 11-30-15, 08:16 PM   #152
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So I loose some efficiency with the VFD, but I think I more than make up for it using 3 phase compressor. What is the difference between single-phase and 3-phase power? | Tripp Lite

http://hpac.com/motors-drives/applyi...ration-systems

http://www.acdrive.org/vfd-for-refri...ompressor.html

http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/showthread....n-a-compressor
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Old 12-01-15, 07:59 PM   #153
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I am really leaning toward 3 phase guys. The VFD uses about 3% while running but I don't know how much it will loose in the conversion. BUT I gain efficiency my using 3 phase. It really looks pretty straight forward. It gives me capacity control like I want. It uses a R22 compressor. I don't see the bad at all? Only other concern is oil return but that would be an issue with any variable speed compressor.
Please feel free to tell me why this is a terrible idea, the more I look at it the more I really like it.

Here are some interesting sites about VFDs with good and bad reviews. This is not for a compressor btw. VFD recomemndations for single to 3-phase for 7.5 hp

http://www.dartcontrols.com/wp-conte...hase-Power.pdf
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Old 12-02-15, 11:47 AM   #154
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Read this:
AE-1369 R1 Use of Variable Frequency Drives (VFDs) with Copeland Discus® Compressors | AE Bulletin

For their scrolls, Emerson recommends an operating range of 45 to 70 Hz to avoid lubrication and overheating problems. Danfoss is somewhat more daring: they spec a lower limit of 30 Hz. Then again, their pots are made to run best using 50 hz line power.

So there you have it. The manufacturer has at least blessed using their pots in this manner. Quite surprising, as most mfr's flatly dismiss running their equipment outside "original design parameters", much less provide guidelines for "approved operating range". The approved range is close to that of the ultra scrolls. Super conservative rating, no doubt.

HMMM...
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Old 12-02-15, 01:13 PM   #155
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Thanks for the link Jeff. Yes i had just started looking into the oil problems. I wish I could find a decent price on a 4 ton 3 phase. I could run it over power if I had to, But lower power most of the time, it would allow me to go lower of output with oil problems.
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Old 12-02-15, 08:14 PM   #156
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Here is a good looking model. With all the better insulation I probably will never miss the extra half ton, and the larger indoor coil and tx will basically add half a ton more. PLUS I can run this slightly over 60hz if need be.
ZR40K3E-TF5-230 - Copeland 3 3.5 Ton Scroll A/C Compressor 208-230v 3 Phase

Or here is one I might could get cheaper, but its for 410a. I could use 410a or just drain and flush the oil out. It would lower my BTU some more too though. http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-5-TON-COMP...kAAOSwMmBV5xlN
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Old 12-04-15, 06:39 PM   #157
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Check this out, New 5 Ton Copeland Scroll Compressor ZPS60K4E PFV 130 208 230V 1 P R410A | eBay

Surplus City is having a sale in these for $430, Yes its 410a but that is a good thing because it will mean my capacity is closer to 4 ton. AND its dual stage. AND they have one that is 3 phase. So I can just run it as normal or really cut my capacity down and use the lower stage while slowing the compressor down.
Thoughts? I have til dec 10th
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Old 12-05-15, 12:07 PM   #158
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I would suggest caution.!!
I had received a compressor that wouldn't compress. It made some weird noise and didn't move any refrigerant. It could have been a factory reject or been dropped in shipment. (surplus stuff) I spent a lot of time and extra cost removing the defective and replacing with new and I could find one the size I needed and cold weather had begun.

I had rebuilt the thing 5 times. Hx problems air bubble in loop. circ.pump probelm

The long and short my time and money could have purchased a completed unit tested and proved in a factory.

In the land of plenty, check for one that's complete and tested I seen one on ebay for $600.00

I think it quicker and you don't have to make all the similar mistakes.

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Old 12-06-15, 07:36 AM   #159
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You are very wise randen, I found this one foor $600 like you said. And it would be a perfect fit. ZR40K3E TF5 230 Copeland 3 3 5 Ton Scroll A C Compressor 208 230V 3 Phase | eBay
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Old 12-06-15, 05:14 PM   #160
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Memphis

Not what I had intended
Climate Master Tranquility 20 Geothermal Heat Pump Complete $1400.00 HX matches compressor, (the really inexpensive one disappeared){wrong season to be trying to source one} low voltage controls, main contactor with overloads and high and low switches in a nice box.

YES you can make your own but when you have to buy all the pcs. and experiment it doesn't make sense.

I have a shop with tools and know my way around electrical components and made some really nice HXs BUT! I had to buy proper brazed plate HX and a second surplus compressor and a VFD.

Now part of my dilemma is I'm in Canada and a completed unit is quite expensive here. However in the US these things seem plentiful and reasonably priced. I don't think it is reasonable to piece one together unless you really really! want to experiment.

Just my $0.02

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