Sanyo 24KHS72 AC/HP DIY install project - Page 31

Xringer · 01-28-11, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotwire

I think Xringer is on the right track, by doing the line set calcs your system, it is probably overcharged by 12.76 to 13.86 oz of refrigerant, depending on what chart I go by. That noise you hear at startup could be from the compressor slugging, and that's not good. These units are not plug and play. Refrigerant must be added or reclaimed if you vary from the factory pre-charge for the listed line length. One chart for your unit said it was pre-charged for 128' of line set, another said 123'.

If you take Xringer's unit as an example it came pre-charged for a 33' line set, he's running a 20' line set. If you look at the manual for his unit it says to adjust the charge .27 oz per foot, that works out to be 3.51oz. of extra refrigerant for his system. In his case, the unit runs fine until it tries to run at high speed, then he gets an overload condition.

Hope this helps,
Kenny

His system would take three 42 foot line sets! Wow..

I did not know that my system charge was for 33' lineset..
I just took the word of the vendor and the Sanyo Tech guys that a 20' lineset was ok..

The text: (edited here)
* If total tubing length becomes 33 to 98 ft. (Max.), charge additional refrigerant (R410A) by 0.27 oz./ft.

Doesn't say 33' is the minimum length. But I can see what you mean..

It just seems like 3.5 oz isn't very much compared to 4.3 pounds.
5% too much R410a??

I wonder if I took out 3.5 oz..?. Would I get more normal operation?

That would be great, if it was that simple..

gogigaga · 01-28-11, 01:30 PM

Below is the image of refrigerant specification from the manual that came with my system. It does not mention anything about reclaiming. It does say I need to add refrigerant if the total line length exceeds 123 feet.
My systems total line length is 65 ft. I know someone who is using the same unit fine with 85 ft.

Update: after resetting the system 4 time the error code changed from CH26 to CH05. CH05 means a problem in the connection between indoor and outdoor unit. I verified the connection several times but could not find any problem.
Now when I reset the system the outside unit does not start at all (no sound, no fan...) and the inside unit looks like is is working normally for 2 minutes (but it is not) and then shows CH05.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

I found a document which listed a few tests to diagnose the cause of ch05 error.

One test was "Check the resistance between communication line and GND. (Normal: Over 2M)." For this test I did not get any resistance reading. My house is 50 years old with 2 wire electric connection whitout grounding. Could lack of grounding be the reason for no resistance? If I ground the disconnect box to the main water pipe is it likely that it will solve the CH05 issue?

As always appreciate any help!

MN Renovator · 01-29-11, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

His system would take three 42 foot line sets! Wow..

I did not know that my system charge was for 33' lineset..
I just took the word of the vendor and the Sanyo Tech guys that a 20' lineset was ok..

The text: (edited here)
* If total tubing length becomes 33 to 98 ft. (Max.), charge additional refrigerant (R410A) by 0.27 oz./ft.

Doesn't say 33' is the minimum length. But I can see what you mean..

It just seems like 3.5 oz isn't very much compared to 4.3 pounds.
5% too much R410a??

I wonder if I took out 3.5 oz..?. Would I get more normal operation?

That would be great, if it was that simple..

When you had your leak with your first unit, somewhere during the loss of refrigerant you had, and then passed the point of what might have been more optimal. Was there a point before you realized that you had the leak where it seemed to run slightly better and without the overloading issues? I suppose it might have been hard to tell, especially if that was a very short duration. How would you measure the removal of 3.5oz? I'm good with electronics and have done A/C work on a car referencing the low side pressure chart for R134a versus temp and humidity but things get a bit more complex when you start looking at high efficiency small units attached to buildings using inverters.

Xringer · 01-29-11, 05:54 PM

I don't recall the chain of events, but afterward, finding the leak wasn't too hard.
I think it must be a pretty large leak. When I shot in some nitrogen, it wasn't
too hard to locate the leak. Used some tubing held up to my ear and poked
around until I could hear the hiss of the leak..

I think what happened was an over-pressure event, that popped a pin-hole in the copper.
But I don't know for sure.

I've added refrigerant to old car ACs before.
Add one 'can' and check if the air coming out is colder..
Then, drive it for another summer..

I told a co-worker how to do it.. He did it and got it running cooler!
THEN, a few days later, he went on-line, and found out what the output air temperature
specs were, And started adding more cans of refrigerant, until he hit the spec.
I think he must have added about 6 pounds.
Because on the hottest day of August, he took his wife and new baby
on a long car trip to Cape Cod.. Once they were about 4 hours from home,
the AC lost all it's refrigerant (and it's compressor)..

Later, he was mad at me. Like I told him to add 6 pounds!! LOL!!

bigtguy · 02-01-11, 07:01 PM

Hey folks, thanks for this blog. It helped me decide to go with the Sanyo KHS2472.

But I've got a problem. The unit is installed, a technician just vacuumed the system all to specs, all good. The AC is running great.

But NO HEAT. Just nothing. As much as we've tried we can't get it to run heat.

So we're in San Diego, and have to track down some kind of technical support. Do you know of a number for Sanyo, or have any idea what the problem might be.

Thank you so much in advance,

Tom

Xringer · 02-01-11, 08:05 PM

Here's one place to check. I'm on the east coast and called here:
SANYO :: HVAC :: Get Service

Is your system in Auto mode or Heat mode?

Even when it's cold out, sometimes I can't get auto mode to select heat. And I have to do it myself..
(Using the Mode button to select the little Sun Burst icon)..

One last question, in AC mode, is it putting out some really cold air???

bigtguy · 02-01-11, 08:10 PM

Thanks, I'll check the link.

The system is in Heat mode, not auto. And yes in heat mode the air is SUPER COLD.

Also nice and cold in AC mode too,.

Xringer · 02-01-11, 09:08 PM

The LED on the indoor unit, what color is it when the cold air is coming out??

Orange means heat and Green means cool.. Does the LED change colors
when you change from cool to heat mode??

Xringer · 02-01-11, 09:52 PM

If the Orange LED isn't coming on, then you might have a comm problem.
Something is amiss with the wiring between the units.?.

If you have the Orange LED coming on when you request heat, maybe the 4-way valve isn't working.

It's on the lower righthand side of the diagram.

The two red wires right above the compressor.

They go up to a white connector where they change to black wires going to the board..

I think that might be easy to check out with a VOM meter.
First unplug and look at the coil resistance if it's a low resistance (Not shorted or open),
then read the voltage out of the board while the remote was switching between heating and cooling..

Heck, maybe it's just unplugged..?.

Xringer · 02-01-11, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigtguy

Thanks, I'll check the link.

The system is in Heat mode, not auto. And yes in heat mode the air is SUPER COLD.

Also nice and cold in AC mode too,.

Well, the good news is, your R410a and compressor seem to be working..
If the air coming out was at room temp, then you really have problems!

01-28-11, 01:30 PM	#302
gogigaga Lurking Renovator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: San Jose Posts: 14 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Below is the image of refrigerant specification from the manual that came with my system. It does not mention anything about reclaiming. It does say I need to add refrigerant if the total line length exceeds 123 feet. My systems total line length is 65 ft. I know someone who is using the same unit fine with 85 ft. Update: after resetting the system 4 time the error code changed from CH26 to CH05. CH05 means a problem in the connection between indoor and outdoor unit. I verified the connection several times but could not find any problem. Now when I reset the system the outside unit does not start at all (no sound, no fan...) and the inside unit looks like is is working normally for 2 minutes (but it is not) and then shows CH05. [IMG][/IMG] I found a document which listed a few tests to diagnose the cause of ch05 error. One test was "Check the resistance between communication line and GND. (Normal: Over 2M)." For this test I did not get any resistance reading. My house is 50 years old with 2 wire electric connection whitout grounding. Could lack of grounding be the reason for no resistance? If I ground the disconnect box to the main water pipe is it likely that it will solve the CH05 issue? As always appreciate any help! Last edited by gogigaga; 01-29-11 at 12:09 PM.. Reason: Updating the progress.

01-29-11, 05:54 PM	#304
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I don't recall the chain of events, but afterward, finding the leak wasn't too hard. I think it must be a pretty large leak. When I shot in some nitrogen, it wasn't too hard to locate the leak. Used some tubing held up to my ear and poked around until I could hear the hiss of the leak.. I think what happened was an over-pressure event, that popped a pin-hole in the copper. But I don't know for sure. I've added refrigerant to old car ACs before. Add one 'can' and check if the air coming out is colder.. Then, drive it for another summer.. I told a co-worker how to do it.. He did it and got it running cooler! THEN, a few days later, he went on-line, and found out what the output air temperature specs were, And started adding more cans of refrigerant, until he hit the spec. I think he must have added about 6 pounds. Because on the hottest day of August, he took his wife and new baby on a long car trip to Cape Cod.. Once they were about 4 hours from home, the AC lost all it's refrigerant (and it's compressor).. Later, he was mad at me. Like I told him to add 6 pounds!! LOL!!

02-01-11, 07:01 PM	#305
bigtguy Lurking Renovator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 5 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey folks, thanks for this blog. It helped me decide to go with the Sanyo KHS2472. But I've got a problem. The unit is installed, a technician just vacuumed the system all to specs, all good. The AC is running great. But NO HEAT. Just nothing. As much as we've tried we can't get it to run heat. So we're in San Diego, and have to track down some kind of technical support. Do you know of a number for Sanyo, or have any idea what the problem might be. Thank you so much in advance, Tom

02-01-11, 08:05 PM	#306
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Here's one place to check. I'm on the east coast and called here: SANYO :: HVAC :: Get Service Is your system in Auto mode or Heat mode? Even when it's cold out, sometimes I can't get auto mode to select heat. And I have to do it myself.. (Using the Mode button to select the little Sun Burst icon).. One last question, in AC mode, is it putting out some really cold air???

02-01-11, 08:10 PM	#307
bigtguy Lurking Renovator Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: san diego Posts: 5 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks, I'll check the link. The system is in Heat mode, not auto. And yes in heat mode the air is SUPER COLD. Also nice and cold in AC mode too,.

02-01-11, 09:08 PM	#308
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	The LED on the indoor unit, what color is it when the cold air is coming out?? Orange means heat and Green means cool.. Does the LED change colors when you change from cool to heat mode??

02-01-11, 09:52 PM	#309
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	If the Orange LED isn't coming on, then you might have a comm problem. Something is amiss with the wiring between the units.?. If you have the Orange LED coming on when you request heat, maybe the 4-way valve isn't working. It's on the lower righthand side of the diagram. The two red wires right above the compressor. They go up to a white connector where they change to black wires going to the board.. I think that might be easy to check out with a VOM meter. First unplug and look at the coil resistance if it's a low resistance (Not shorted or open), then read the voltage out of the board while the remote was switching between heating and cooling.. Heck, maybe it's just unplugged..?.