New to the forum

[Xringer]

Originally Posted by Daox

Welcome to the site James.

Of course, sealing and insulating are always easier and cheaper to do first.

That may not necessarily be the case for homes built in a very mild climate zone.
Especially, if the renovations were going to cost big bucks.
Average High/Low Temperatures for KNKX : Weather Underground
If the the outside temperature is pretty mild most of the time,
(like in SoCal where it hits the 80s during Jan & Dec)
why would anyone want to invest $6,000 in double pane windows,
when a mini-split could handle your heating and cooling,
while costing peanuts to run. While leaving the home as is.

Keep in mind, "The average American moves 11.7 times in a lifetime".
Population Profile of the United States

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Xringer

...why would anyone want to invest $6,000 in double pane windows...

An informed insulation straegy will use insulation options appropriate to the specific climate.

Originally Posted by Xringer

Keep in mind, "The average American moves 11.7 times in a lifetime".
Population Profile of the United States

Use short term thinking at your own risk...

Image from Limits To Growth, first edition published in 1970

-AC_Hacker

[Daox]

I'd have to agree with AC Hacker. I just helped my friends move into their first house. I took a look through the house mentally keeping track of things that could use improvement as I know my friend will want some tips in the future. So, we meander downstairs to see a brand new boiler which I took a glimpse at the energy star tag to see a very disappointing 82% efficiency. Its clear the seller was only looking out for #1 when they replaced it. They also did the same thing with a few windows they replaced (previous ones were broken single panes). The stickers were on them and have a U-value of .49 (R value is 2). Its obvious they found the darn near the cheapest thing to shove in there that they could.

I know this is a pie is the sky idea, but wouldn't it be great if people just did the right freakin thing? So, this seller buys a cheapo boiler only to move into a new place where that seller did the same thing and the cycle of idiocy continues and nobody really saves money or fuel. But, they got their extra couple hundred dollars in their pocket so they think they really made out good.

*Disclaimer: This small rant was not directed at anyone here. It just reminded me of this weekend's activies and the short sightedness of the masses and the never ending quest of the almighty dollar.

[Xringer]

I'll be 66 in January, so I'm learning how to do short term planning..
When I buy solar panels, I'm not worried about them not lasting a full 30 years.

My advice is not to go overboard with EcoRenovations, if you live where they aren't
needed but 2 or 3 times a year, (for 3 hours).

Someone with a small house using a good mini-split,
living in a mild climate zone, that used 5 kWh a day during
the heating season, may be able to cut down to 3 kWh a day,
by doing some EcoRenovations, or turning down the thermostat.

So, instead of paying 75 cents a day, it's 45 cents a day..
Times 90 days? Saving 30 cents a day. He saves $27 a season!
(Pizza & beer for two)!

I'm just sayin, do the math. If it looks good, do it.
If you think you might be moving else wheres in a few years,
think about making a large investment in something you
will be forced to leave behind.


~~~

I was doing home inspections when my kid was looking for a new house.
She found a nice little home in Lexington. While I was there, at least
six families came in and looked over the house.

In the basement, I found watermarks on the walls that indicated
water had come down from above, flowing inside the walls!
On the main floor, I noticed a few places where the walls seemed to
have been slightly damaged by water from inside the wall..

Not one had even looked in the attic! None of the prospective buyers,
or the realtor had been up there. I pulled down the rope, went up
the stairs and found brand new panels nailed up on the rafters!
I pulled one back a little and found the roof had recently been on fire!
I removed one 4'x8' panel and found very extensive fire damage!!
I could push my knife point 1 to 2" into the blacken planks..
The roof was ready to cave in at the first snow..

My point: Most folks who might want to buy your house someday, will likely be interested
in other stuff, besides how many inches of insulation is up in the attic..

Because of the location-location-location, around here,
many people buy nicely kept 1950-60s 3 or 4-bedroom ranch houses and never move in.
They have them torn down and replaced with a king-kong sized house.
More bedrooms than they will ever use.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by Xringer

I'll be 66 in January, so I'm learning how to do short term planning..

Originally Posted by Xringer

My advice is not to go overboard with EcoRenovations, if you live where they aren't needed but 2 or 3 times a year, (for 3 hours).

Xringer is probably right, if you are not expecting to live very long, AND you live in a climate area where there are less than 10 Heating Degree Days AND less than 10 Cooling degree Days per year, then insulation upgrades are probably not worth pursuing.

There are areas in the world, closer to the equator, and high enough in the mountains to escape the uncomfortable heat, where there is little shift in comfortable daily temperature from season to season, and where neither heating nor cooling are ever required, and it would follow, no insulation ever required, either.

By the way, I just checked Heating Degree Day map for the lower 48 states, and there is no region in the lower 48 states where the combined heating and cooling degree days is less than 20. In other words, there is no place where insulation should be neglected.

Originally Posted by Xringer

I'll be 66 in January, so I'm learning how to do short term planning..

So, only one's anticipation of imminent departure from this earthly realm remains as a suitable rationale for neglecting robust insulation and sealing...

BTW, I have checked the insulation standards for both heaven and hell, and the insulation standards for heaven are quite high, even above Passive House standards. Houses are well sealed with high efficiency ERVs providing healthful fresh air. Every window has multi-pane windows with double Low-E coatings for your comfort, as you gaze out into the magnificent vistas, that you would expect to find in a class act such as heaven.

The standards for hell, not surprisingly, are very low. All rooms in hell are drafty at any time of the day or night, the smell of brimstone is inescapable (even Satan has gotten into recycling, and the brimstone is being made from the effluent of coal-based power generation). Night time temperatures are extremely cold... and since the utility costs are not subsidized, power costs (you still have to pay) are unreasonably high and will only go higher. The daytime temperatures, as one would expect, are unimaginably scorching and there is no hope at all for dehumidification in hell, ever. The views out of the leaky, single-pane windows are of neighbors who are miserable, unemployed and suffering in their houses, too.

Best of Luck...

-AC_Hacker

[Xringer]

Yeapers, If you can ride a bike to school in the dead of winter, without gloves,
forget about buying those fancy triple pane windows!!

Of course, we were tough little brats back in the 1950s..


Climate Information for Del Rio*-*Texas*-*Southwest*-*United States*-*Climate Zone
LOL! The average temperatures in the worse part of the winter was in the 50s??
Well okay, maybe we weren't so tough..