Sanyo 24KHS72 AC/HP DIY install project - Page 43

gasguy · 09-28-11, 02:42 PM

Xringer,

Thanks for the great thread on DIY mini splits. Its the best on the Internet. Thanks to you and all the other contributers, I have jump in, and purchased two Frigidaire FRS18PYS2 mini splits to replace two of my aging 28 year old Friedrich PTAC units and will post a new DIY thread shortly.

Many thanks.

Xringer · 09-28-11, 08:00 PM

Thanks, I hope it didn't take all week to read..

Can't wait to see your install thread. Don't forget to post us a URL to the manual.pdf !

Cheers,
Rich

RKA · 09-29-11, 11:29 AM

Couple quick questions:
1. What size hole do you think would work for a 3/8" + 5/8" lineset (plus the wires and condensate tube). Seems like I'm finding 3" is generally recommended, but in some cases 4" is needed and I might be on the border. I need to order a hole saw, mandrel and extension. Everything I have only goes to 2.5".
2. Did the wall sleeve come with the mini split? I don't see that sold separately.
3. Where did you get the condensate tube, or did you fit standard clear vinyl tubing from a big box store? I've found some places that sell the flex condensate tube...in 100 ft lengths! If run outside, I'm guessing uninsulated tube is fine (everything will eventualy be wrapped in the foam tape you mentioned in the thread)?

TIA!

Xringer · 09-29-11, 12:58 PM

1. Mine was 3", and by the time I was done, I was wishing for 4".. (The insulation is bulky).
2. My online dealer package contained the parts needed (plus the 3" sleeve).
3. The kit also included a condensate tube.

See the bottom of this page:
24KHS72 - Sanyo 24,200 BTU Wall Mount Heat Pump Air Conditioner Kit (Out of Stock)

No need for the condensate tube to be wrapped up, it's only needed in the summertime.
If you wanted to drain the water elsewhere, you could rig up an extension.
Be very careful not to allow insects to get up in there and block it up,
or water will be running down your wall.

When drilling the hole, made sure it's at a slight downwards angle,
so no water will sit in the hose during cold weather.

My lineset had foam insulation over most of it. I only wrapped up the exposed copper, And the valve hardware.

Cheers,
Rich

S-F · 09-30-11, 11:56 AM

How is the overvoltage / pressure situation panning out? That's honestly the one thing making me leery of getting into this.

AC_Hacker · 09-30-11, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-F

How is the overvoltage / pressure situation panning out? That's honestly the one thing making me leery of getting into this.

I realize you are addressing this to Xringer, but I will volunteer that I have had my mini-split for about two years, and I have had none of the overvoltage / pressure problems that Xringer has had. I have a unit that is from the same manufacturer (Sanyo), but is smaller than his unit.

S-F, if you are considering a mini-split, you should ask the other posters here who have installed one, I think there are several mini-split installs represented here.

I really don't know why Xringer has had the problems he has had. Although I wasn't there on the scene when he did his install, I think he did a better install than I did. I gave him all the info and ideas I had from my install and he seems to be a very methodical and precise kind of guy, more so than I am.

I have no idea what the heat load for his house is, I don't think he actually did a heat load calc... most people don't (big mistake).

I did do a heat load calc on my house, and used several different methods, including computerized programs (I tried three different ones), spread sheet heat loss estimators (see Build it Solar), and lastly, heating the house with some resistance heaters and measuring the power each one of them consumed (each heater had it's own Kill-a-Watt), during an actual design condition (17 degrees over three days (unusual for where I live).

So I made sure that the mini-split I ordered would cover the actual heat load (just barely), both calculated and measured, for my house.

This could be Xringer's problem.

Other than that, the problem he is having is very unusual.

It could possibly be his model in a particular production run.

But as a technology, mini-splits are usually very reliable and trouble free, and cost effective, and a no-hassle pleasure to use.

Regards,

-AC_Hacker

S-F · 09-30-11, 12:49 PM

I know that yours has been trouble free. I have kept a keen eye out for any mention you make of yours.
I can't get the numbers from measuring my usage because I wouldn't use it for heat but AC only. It would be more expensive to run one in the winter instead of my current CNG setup. I'll have to get some professional input on sizes when I end up going through with this. My house doesn't have many operable windows and out of all of them only one can fit a 5,000 BTU casement shaker. We were dying for a while this summer.

Xringer · 09-30-11, 01:35 PM

I'm pretty sure that heat load doesn't have anything to do with it.
I can go in right now, (it's 77 out) and set it for cooling and it will
work okay, but only if I call for 75-76 of cooling..
If I call for 72, the Sanyo motors will go into high gear and
within two or three minutes, it will be heading for 3.6 KW.
The button marked "High Power" will cause the same problem.

Since I built and installed a very sensitive circuit breaker
that self-resets, over current is no longer a problem.
During the winter defrost cycles, it used to overload
at the end of each cycle.. Now it just hiccups, resets
and repeats a few times and runs normally.

Since my replacement unit was from the same lot,
it could be a bad lot.. Or maybe not.
I have heard of at least two other Sanyo owners who have had
problems with overly high current draw.

I've been told the High-Power mode runs the system at 130%.
I guess that means it's going try busting a gut.?.
Anyways, mine seems to do the HP mode whenever
I call for a big change in temp or it's just finished defrosting.

I'm considering buying a new indoor unit to use with
my repaired spare, but if I was starting fresh,
I would not buy a Sanyo of this vintage. (It's not a new design).

AC_Hacker · 09-30-11, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by S-F

I can't get the numbers from measuring my usage because I wouldn't use it for heat but AC only. It would be more expensive to run one in the winter instead of my current CNG setup.

Of course, but that depends on the local cost of electricity, local cost of gas, efficiency of the mini-split, and efficiency of your gas heater.

Have you checked out this Fuel Comparison Calculator on Build it Solar? It is really very useful, as it takes all of those factors into consideration and also gives you CO2 output for each.

I don't know what your gas heat efficiency is, but the Fujitsu Halcyon has the highest efficiency of the mini-splits. The 15,000 BTU, which actually puts out 18,000 BTU, has a Heating seasonal Performance Factor of 11, which implies a COP of 3.23.

If you wanted to do a rough comparison, figure that you'll need 12,000 BTU per 1,000 square foot, and compair the mini-split with gas. You might be pleasantly surprised. BTW, that mini-split (Fujitsu Halcyon 15RLS) qualifies for tax credits, possibly state & fed.

-AC_Hacker

PS: I do not own stock in Fujutsu.

RKA · 10-03-11, 10:50 AM

Thanks XRinger! I actually wanted to order from the same place you did, but their lack of invertory killed it for me. It's a shame, because they are one of the few (only!) places that sell you everything soup to nuts, and provide after sale technical support. I think I'll keep track of where I buy all the bits and bobbles and provide that list so the next guy doesn't have to hunt and peck as much. It's a real PITA to find a short length of condensate tube and a wall sleeve > 3".

Thanks for the other tips. Funny you mentioned the insects because I have an ant problem outside and in the dry summer months they go looking for any source of moisture. I've been pondering what to do with this condensate tube, but so far no real solution.

09-30-11, 01:35 PM	#428
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	No Problem now.. I'm pretty sure that heat load doesn't have anything to do with it. I can go in right now, (it's 77 out) and set it for cooling and it will work okay, but only if I call for 75-76 of cooling.. If I call for 72, the Sanyo motors will go into high gear and within two or three minutes, it will be heading for 3.6 KW. The button marked "High Power" will cause the same problem. Since I built and installed a very sensitive circuit breaker that self-resets, over current is no longer a problem. During the winter defrost cycles, it used to overload at the end of each cycle.. Now it just hiccups, resets and repeats a few times and runs normally. Since my replacement unit was from the same lot, it could be a bad lot.. Or maybe not. I have heard of at least two other Sanyo owners who have had problems with overly high current draw. I've been told the High-Power mode runs the system at 130%. I guess that means it's going try busting a gut.?. Anyways, mine seems to do the HP mode whenever I call for a big change in temp or it's just finished defrosting. I'm considering buying a new indoor unit to use with my repaired spare, but if I was starting fresh, I would not buy a Sanyo of this vintage. (It's not a new design).

09-28-11, 02:42 PM	#421
gasguy Lurking Renovator Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Canyon Lake, Tx Posts: 3 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Xringer, Thanks for the great thread on DIY mini splits. Its the best on the Internet. Thanks to you and all the other contributers, I have jump in, and purchased two Frigidaire FRS18PYS2 mini splits to replace two of my aging 28 year old Friedrich PTAC units and will post a new DIY thread shortly. Many thanks.

09-28-11, 08:00 PM	#422
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Thanks, I hope it didn't take all week to read.. Can't wait to see your install thread. Don't forget to post us a URL to the manual.pdf ! Cheers, Rich

09-29-11, 11:29 AM	#423
RKA Lurking Renovator Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Couple quick questions: 1. What size hole do you think would work for a 3/8" + 5/8" lineset (plus the wires and condensate tube). Seems like I'm finding 3" is generally recommended, but in some cases 4" is needed and I might be on the border. I need to order a hole saw, mandrel and extension. Everything I have only goes to 2.5". 2. Did the wall sleeve come with the mini split? I don't see that sold separately. 3. Where did you get the condensate tube, or did you fit standard clear vinyl tubing from a big box store? I've found some places that sell the flex condensate tube...in 100 ft lengths! If run outside, I'm guessing uninsulated tube is fine (everything will eventualy be wrapped in the foam tape you mentioned in the thread)? TIA!

09-29-11, 12:58 PM	#424
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	1. Mine was 3", and by the time I was done, I was wishing for 4".. (The insulation is bulky). 2. My online dealer package contained the parts needed (plus the 3" sleeve). 3. The kit also included a condensate tube. See the bottom of this page: 24KHS72 - Sanyo 24,200 BTU Wall Mount Heat Pump Air Conditioner Kit (Out of Stock) No need for the condensate tube to be wrapped up, it's only needed in the summertime. If you wanted to drain the water elsewhere, you could rig up an extension. Be very careful not to allow insects to get up in there and block it up, or water will be running down your wall. When drilling the hole, made sure it's at a slight downwards angle, so no water will sit in the hose during cold weather. My lineset had foam insulation over most of it. I only wrapped up the exposed copper, And the valve hardware. Cheers, Rich

09-30-11, 11:56 AM	#425
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	How is the overvoltage / pressure situation panning out? That's honestly the one thing making me leery of getting into this.

09-30-11, 12:49 PM	#427
S-F You Ain't Me Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Northampton MA Posts: 662 Thanks: 6 Thanked 71 Times in 58 Posts	I know that yours has been trouble free. I have kept a keen eye out for any mention you make of yours. I can't get the numbers from measuring my usage because I wouldn't use it for heat but AC only. It would be more expensive to run one in the winter instead of my current CNG setup. I'll have to get some professional input on sizes when I end up going through with this. My house doesn't have many operable windows and out of all of them only one can fit a 5,000 BTU casement shaker. We were dying for a while this summer.

10-03-11, 10:50 AM	#430
RKA Lurking Renovator Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: NJ Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks XRinger! I actually wanted to order from the same place you did, but their lack of invertory killed it for me. It's a shame, because they are one of the few (only!) places that sell you everything soup to nuts, and provide after sale technical support. I think I'll keep track of where I buy all the bits and bobbles and provide that list so the next guy doesn't have to hunt and peck as much. It's a real PITA to find a short length of condensate tube and a wall sleeve > 3". Thanks for the other tips. Funny you mentioned the insects because I have an ant problem outside and in the dry summer months they go looking for any source of moisture. I've been pondering what to do with this condensate tube, but so far no real solution.