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Old 09-04-15, 07:09 AM   #1
MEMPHIS91
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Default 11,000 BTU DX GEO Heating

Howdy again, as some of you know I have a few projects that are still in the design stage, mainly due to money issues and an unsure time frame of a off grid dream.
This build is not limited by either one. And will help give me real data for the 4 ton DX system if I do ever decide to go through with it.

The Plan:
My greenhouse is 24 feet by 16 feet, and is built onto the front of my house so only 42 feet of liner wall space, 7-8 feet high, is triple walled 8mm poly panels. Same for the roof. I heated it with wood last year but I hate having 2 fires going plus I would like to heat my fish tank water in the aquaponics system.
The Idea:
The 17 feet deep 2-3 acre pond is 75 feet from the greenhouse. I want to run a loop of 300 feet (total 150' to and 150' back) of 1/4 or 3/8 copper into the pond. 75 feet of which will be buried 6-7 feet deep all the way to the pond, then the rest will be sunk 6 inches from the bottom of the pond.
I have a spare 6,500btu rotary window unit that I will be harvesting the compressor and evap coil/fan from. Here is where it get tricky. I want to put in a 3 way valve setup on a thermostat that is in the fish tank. It will bypass the evap coil to a non copper coil (copper bad for the fishes) in the fish tank.
Parts Needed:
Compressor I already have
Evap and fan I already have.
Thermostat I already have
300 feet of either 1/4 inch or 3/8 copper tubbing. (ideas? I thinking 1/4 should be ok, but that is a lot of resistance for a 6,500 compressor.)
Oil separator, Jeff5may, you posted a picture of a small oil separator in the 4ton thread, I'm having the worse luck finding one small enough for half ton. Do you happen to know where that image came from? Or does anyone know where to find one? I know they are used on extreme computer chillers but have been unable to find where they get them, because most are not built in the states. I found this one Q E HVAC R Refrigeration Oil Separator 1 2" ODS New | eBay but I know its too big and will probably not cycle the oil back at the right time/volume for a small compressor.
3 way valve. I'm thinking this will be fine, Ranco V3 310081 7GD B1227308 3 Way 1 2 Ton Reversing Valve 10283 | eBay

I will start building just as soon as parts arrive, I'm tired of keeping two fires going in the winter.

Thanks guys!

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Old 09-05-15, 01:16 AM   #2
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You can use a bullet strainer as an oil separator. Supco no. SUD 115 is the common one. Two Tubes facing up, single tube facing down. Bottom tube feeds long, small diameter cap tube back to suction line.
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Old 09-05-15, 11:17 AM   #3
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Jeff, Thanks I'm looking into that right now. I know I should have ordered more of those. I just used my last one. I can't seem to find this application of the SUD115 anywhere. Makes total sense though. Would 2 of them back to back be safer?

Shopping list.
Stainless steel coil for the aquaponics heat exchanger http://www.ebay.com/itm/304-304L-Sta...-/290552612112

45% Silver braze to braze the copper to the stainless http://www.ebay.com/itm/98102-Lucas-...item2357e81a0a

SUD 115 Modified drier/ Oil Separator http://www.ebay.com/itm/Copper-Liqui...item3f4eb94254

3 way valve http://www.ebay.com/itm/RANCO-V3-310...item3378ddafdf

I'm getting the 300 feet of 3/8 copper locally because its much cheaper that way. And I know what I'm getting.

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Old 09-06-15, 11:28 AM   #4
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Here's a good article on oil separation:Oil management in a refrigeration system - Carly : the international expert in refrigeration components


If you use the service valve for your gas outlet, you can flare your stainless line and save some trouble.
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Old 09-06-15, 05:20 PM   #5
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Jeff, again awesome info. Seriously if you are ever in Oxford, look me up. I owe you a beer, and solar cooked organic homemade meal.
Just added this to this list of parts needed BC49X11 Supco Capillary Cap Tube 049 ID x 11 ft Series for Refrigerators AC | eBay

Sadly I will have to come out of the oil separator to a 3 way valve THEN into the stainless steel coil. So its all brazing looks like, but the %45 silver should flow really nice.
I'll be posting a diagram soon.

UPDATE: Found this quote from a really good read, "Actually it's just a "strainer" with nothing more then a screen inside. And yes the basic idea is that the larger internal volume of the strainer as compared to the 3/16"od tubing feeding into it, will allow the velocity to decrease, thereby letting the heavier liquid drop away from the gas. Same principle of any phase separator, this one just happens to be rather small (and cheap).

Of course an even better phase separator has the refrigerant entering from the side, taking advantage of centrifugal force (not just gravity) to separate the liquid from the gas."

-http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?144007-Morphing-Air-Conditioner-into-Autocascade-System

Last edited by MEMPHIS91; 09-07-15 at 04:25 PM..
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Old 09-12-15, 11:17 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEMPHIS91 View Post
Jeff, again awesome info. Seriously if you are ever in Oxford, look me up. I owe you a beer, and solar cooked organic homemade meal.
Just added this to this list of parts needed BC49X11 Supco Capillary Cap Tube 049 ID x 11 ft Series for Refrigerators AC | eBay

Sadly I will have to come out of the oil separator to a 3 way valve THEN into the stainless steel coil. So its all brazing looks like, but the %45 silver should flow really nice.
I'll be posting a diagram soon.

UPDATE: Found this quote from a really good read, "Actually it's just a "strainer" with nothing more then a screen inside. And yes the basic idea is that the larger internal volume of the strainer as compared to the 3/16"od tubing feeding into it, will allow the velocity to decrease, thereby letting the heavier liquid drop away from the gas. Same principle of any phase separator, this one just happens to be rather small (and cheap).

Of course an even better phase separator has the refrigerant entering from the side, taking advantage of centrifugal force (not just gravity) to separate the liquid from the gas."

-http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?144007-Morphing-Air-Conditioner-into-Autocascade-System
The two or three main posters in the cited thread are regulars on the xtreme forum. They do this refrigeration "alchemy" for a living, so they can be a great help to you and the rest of us. Unlike other forums, these people have no problem with giving a straight answer to the questions that we have difficulty with. Especially with respect to design parameters of an "unconventional" nature.Reading lots of threads over there, as well as asking the right questions of the individual experts, helped me immensely in understanding the theory behind how these rigs do what they do.
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Old 09-12-15, 05:11 PM   #7
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That site is loaded with awesome info. I have spent countless hours lost in thread upon thread. Jeff the only piece of the puzzle I'm missing is what size and how long the call tube coming off the oil separator/ drier should be. I have .049 ID and some .028 ID. But I can buy what ever is best, I should be able to start building the system next week.
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Old 09-21-15, 02:38 PM   #8
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So my idea is to use 2 SUD115 piggy backed, discharge comes into the 1/4 of the first one, out the 1/4 and into the 1/4 of the next one and out again. With the oil lines running out the bottom of each, with one foot of .049 ID cap tube. Both joining into a single run of 10 feet of .028. These are just crazy guesstimations based on what I was thinking.

But I do believe that if I stay around 275-300 feet of 3/8 tubing that the oil will make it back to the compressor anyway though. Just trying to keep out as much as possible.
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Old 09-22-15, 06:34 AM   #9
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So the work begins! I picked up this window unit a while back.

And I broke it down, this poor machine needed a really good cleaning.

Here are the numbers for the compressor, note the pink sticker on the bottom, this guy ran on R410a with POE oil, so that is getting flushed out and replaced with mineral, though R290 is soluble with POE as well.

I pulled out what was once the evap and cleaned it up with some acid.

The reversing valve is in, still need to find a coil for it though. I had to do some research on this to make sure it would work. I was worried the valve wouldn't be able to switch the flow from the condenser to the fish tank coil while the compressor was running, but I was reassured it would by a HVAC tech, so we shall just wait and see.
I needed to find my water line before the digging starts this Sunday. And boy was it deep.


More parts coming in soon!
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Old 09-22-15, 11:42 AM   #10
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a few fleabay listings:

Ranco L27 2003 Solenoid Coil for Reversing Valve 48" Wire Leads 24VAC 50 60 Hz | eBay

Ranco Invensys L30 83 Solenoid Coil 24 VDC for V1 V12 Reversing Valve Heat Pump | eBay

6421A20003K LG Kenmore Dehumidifier Reversing Valve Solenoid Coil 030719 Sanhua | eBay

Make sure you get one that will work with your controls. AC or DC, correct voltage.

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