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Old 07-28-12, 01:07 PM   #1
strider3700
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Default New water heater install

My old water heater had been very rusty looking at the top for awhile now. Somewhere in the past a previous owner used galvanized nipples to connect the tank to the copper plumbing. there was some corrosion between the copper and the nipple. There was a lot of corrosion between the nipple and the tank. Yesterday I noticed a small drop of water had formed on the cold water connection between the tank and nipple so that project got moved from soon to now.

Normally I wouldn't bother documenting an electric hotwater install but this isn't just a cut the old one out and throw the new one in with some flexible sharkbite connectors.

First off Jan 1st they changed the rules in BC forcing higher energy efficiency from hotwater tanks. Being the only place in north america that did it manufacturers responded by saying that's nice we're not making a new model just for you. So what's happened is the old top entry tanks don't meet the new requirement. The bottom fed tanks being more efficient do meet that requirement. So I have switch to a bottom fed tank which is a bit more plumbing.

Since I have to switch the plumbing a bit I decided to go with a 60 gallon tank instead of the old 40. We never run the 40 to empty but long term I want solar hotwater and will be using 2 conventional tanks as storage. Bigger is better in that case.

And finally since I'm doing all of this work I figured lets relocate the tank about 5' away into a closet first to get it out of the walkway. Seriously whoever decided this was the place to put it was taking the lazy way out. Just awful. Also in there I can super insulate it far easier as well as it can be strapped to the wall in the event of earthquake. The old one is pushed tight against the furnace so strapping to that is a bad idea.

While I'm doing the install I will be installing a tempering valve also in prep of solar, and I'll be adding a heat trap loop to the hot water line. As it currently stands I can feel the pipe is noticably hot 5' from the tank where it vanishes into the roof. Also now that we have some space I can wrap the tank with a good insulating blanket to start with. The old one had 1/4" between it and the furnace so it was always bleeding heat slowly out.

The tank I went with is nothing special Bottom Entry 60 G (284 L) Electric Heater, 4500 W | Canadian Tire The anode can be easily replaced and the lack of insulation is the only other real difference from the 12 years.

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Old 07-28-12, 10:12 PM   #2
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tempering valve is out of the plans. Apparently they aren't common here s noone has one in store. People decide between catching legionaires disease or scalding themselves. I'll order one from pex supply and add it later. In the meantime legionaires is less likely then scalded 2 year old...

Also I've run into an issue. The old tank was 3500 watts. It should have been wired with 12/2. I would have been pushing it with the new 4500 watt tank which should have 10/2. I found that the old tank had 14/2 running to it.

Temporarily I hooked up the 14/2 so that I could shower tonight while I continued running 10/2 over to a lucky placement of a sub panel that was pretty close and easy to hit. The wire is now ran but I need to hook up in the panel and I should try my best to find/get a new 30 amp breaker.

Right now I keep putting my hand on the old wire and it's warm but not hot. As well the breaker has popped once so it's definitely not a good idea to continue with it.

Other then that the tank is all plumbed, and in place. I haven't insulated as I'll need to adjust the thermostat's down. After that gets sorted out I'll strap it to the wall and call it done.
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Old 07-28-12, 11:57 PM   #3
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And I am done. Old 30 amp breaker worked fine with the new 10/2 wire. I didn't kill myself in the electrical panel. I just turned the tank down to about 110 which is where we kept the old one. I don't overly trust the on board thermostat to be accurate though so I'll test tomorrow. pipe heading out of the tank is insulated to the point in vanishes behind a wall. I'm hoping with the new heat trap I built it won't overly matter much though.

costs break down as follows

tank - $380
tank/pipe wrap $50
foam under the tank free-old stuff
$100 in plumbing -pex, parts, sharkbites
$80 in wiring and electrical.
so $670ish after taxes.

Considering I relocated it 5' and had to completely rewire as well as re-plumb it I"m pretty happy with that. I know that paying a pro to do a direct replacement of a gas one came to $1200, $600 in parts. I don't think I'd get away with $600 in labour for everything I did. I'll post picture later after the insulation is finished.
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Old 07-29-12, 07:38 AM   #4
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Did you go with a loop of pex for the heat trap, or one of the mechanical valve type heat traps?
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Old 07-29-12, 09:47 AM   #5
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Hi,
Do you happen to know how much more efficient the bottom entry tank is?

What makes it more efficient?

Seems like a nice simple design change if it actually achieves much?

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Old 07-29-12, 11:52 AM   #6
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I did a pex loop for the heat trap. It was cheap and simple. I showered last night and the extra 90's didn't affect water flow in any way that I noticed.

For the efficiency I haven't found any specific info from the manufacturer yet. Both the top entry and bottom entry versions of the tank I bought has a horrible watt loss/hour rating of 91. The more heavily insulated 9 year top entry is down to a 75 ratting. Here's their specs. http://www.gsw-wh.com/Docs/GE111C%20...et%2012-10.pdf
Every thing I read so far just says the bottom entry gives you more hot water for the same sized tank.

Insulation is definitely a big priority on this tank for me. It comes with R8. My wrap is an additional R5. Something closer to R30 would be a lot better
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Old 07-29-12, 02:05 PM   #7
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How do you insulate one of these tanks? Why did you opt for a tank as opposed to an on demand unit?
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Old 07-29-12, 02:17 PM   #8
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On demand is a lot more expensive as well I already have a heatpump and electric range. all 3 at once could be pushing the limits of the service to my house. If I had gas/propane I'd have seriously considered an on demand though.

As well I intend to add solar one day and we be using this and a second identical tank as my storage.

heatpump makes no sense in my case since I spend the majority of the year heating the basement with a heatpump.

Insulating the tanks is simply. Just wrap it with insulation. I'm currently looking for an attic wrap tank blanket which is fairly common in the prairies. They sometimes put their hotwater tanks in the attic and then need to insulate the crap out of them to stop freezing in -40 weather. tanks almost always go in the basement here so we get thin insulation blankets...
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Old 08-03-12, 04:35 PM   #9
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And Pictures finally

The old tank in it's brilliant location


The point of failure. 7 years on a 9 year tank with the wrong connections...



Finished install and insulation. I just need to strap it to the wall to be earthquake ready. You can also see the wiring near the furnace ducts that runs the heatpump/electric furnace and powers the subpanel. Whoever installed them didn't believe in clipping them in place as they're just floating
on the furnace ducting... The original construction is good but of early 60's efficiency practices. The updates since then are shockingly half-assed.

The insulation is a full layer of R5 foil covered bubble wrap covered by R5 of fiberglass with a plastic back. Both of the kits are designed for 60 gallon tanks. The foil kit didn't include anything for the top of the tank and left the bottom 12" exposed... I had some extra foil bubble wrap so I made a top and covered the bottom. The fiberglass also left the bottom exposed. I'm not impressed with either kit.

Having said all that the heat trap and wrap must be better then what I started with. With the old hot water heater I was averaging 18 kwh/day when not using heat/AC. With the new 60 gallon tank I've been averaging 16 kwh/day. I wish I had a TED to monitor with and get some good numbers but my usage during the summer is pretty consistent. If I really am saving 2 kwh/day that works out to $75/year

Last edited by strider3700; 08-03-12 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 08-03-12, 06:26 PM   #10
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What is R 5 foil faced bubble wrap?

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