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Old 12-31-16, 09:39 PM   #81
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I don t chase unicorns Jeff , and to be honest I really did not expect this answer from you.
My first contact with this "free energy" world was when I made my first HHO gas generator and light the first bubbles of gas made in my parents living room, when the first bubble exploded and my ears went nuts I realize that there is something to this subject that needs further investigation , I don t say that everything in that book is doable but there are some technologies that for sure can be used in our advantage , as an personal example I can say that I m amazed by the varieties and special proprieties of this "HHO gas" or Brown gas , and there are many more other examples. I think is nothing wrong to experiment with things even thou at the end you don t have a product to sell. Personally I see it more like food for my mind.

Anyway after I ve read your reply and also saw that no one else replied to my post even thou I would expected at least a "thank you" or two for that book I must admit that I went way of topic so I ll try to stick to this topic subject only from now on.

Coming back from the unicorns chase and returning to my geothermal heat pump project:
-I know what heat exchanger I want to use with 24000 BTU mini split unit I ve brought , the problem is that the project is totally stuck as I cannot afford to order the HX now
-I will also try to sell that 3 phase compressor to get some of the funds for my projects
-I ve identified the cheapest sources were I can buy the tools I need to do the cutting, bending, brazing for copper tubes also gauges and all the stuff I need but again I don t have funds for it
-The house still lack the thermal isolation layer


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Old 01-01-17, 12:35 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by b420ady View Post
-The house still lack the thermal isolation layer
I'm coming in on this thread very late, but your last statement, should be your first concern.

It is natural for anyone, when confronted with a project that involves making a house livable and comfortable, to think first in terms of creating the most efficient heat source. This strategy has worked since cave-man built a fire in his winter cave.

But we are not cave-men, and a system approach would begin with an analysis of heat loss and a full-on assault on preventing heat loss.

Heat loss through infiltration is the greatest heat loss mechanism. Start by fanatically finding and stopping all heat leaks. A thorough approach could take months. It could involve removing interior wall covering, plaster, etc. and assuring that your walls do not leak. I have done this on my house, and the results are very impressive.

Then comes insulation. You can be very creative with insulation. Remember that insulation is only effective if air flow through the insulation is completely stopped.

The level of "tech" required for insulation is low, and if you are very clever and resourceful, the cost can be lowered substantially.

* * *

The reason you should focus your attention and resources here, at this point in your project, is that your eventual heat producing source can be made vastly smaller. Ground source heat pump is the best way to go, you got that part right.

But if you are rigorous in hunting down and elimating and reducing heat loss, the GSHP system will be smaller, and way less expensive.

* * *

Regarding "Free Energy", I am an engineer and I have total respect for Isaac Newton. However, a few years ago, I yielded to requests from reasonable friends to look into Free Energy. I spent about two months, full time, researching Free Energy, and following all leads to their concluding ends.

In my opinion, the only free energy coming in from the free energy movement, is the free flow of money spent on books, film, seminars, etc. by gullible, hopeful people. There is no 'there' there.

But there are economic, inexpensive approaches to reducing the energy we use (squander) in our lives.

Happy New Year to you!

Good luck on your project.


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Old 01-02-17, 06:51 AM   #83
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I was going to add my "thanks" to AC's prior post, but more needs to be said. The last few posts may have served to discourage you. Please do not - allow me to explain.

People on this site are HARD core empiricists (perhaps too much English as this is not your native tongue). People here are data driven and have individually spent many thousands of hours of time actively thinking and working on the exact problems you are describing. We are well aware of the "Free Energy" site, similar sites and the sorts of claims that are proposed there.

But we are essentially data driven engineers and we have seen, time after time, that claims of free energy are false. You hit an emotional core when you bring up those issues as it contradicts everything we know, have trained in and have experienced.

Are we all brainwashed? No. Absolutely not! We are a collection of highly trained academicians, four year college trained engineers with decades of experience, incredibly astute hobbyists, tradespeople with exceptional skills, etc. But we all certainly DO know what works - and perhaps even more important, what does not.

Reality works when you have three things to work with; 1) money, 2) time and 3) ingenuity/practical skills. Rarely do all three things occur at the same time. Most of us have lots of the the latter two - not so much the money part. So we understand your financial predicament.

Our recommendations are also built of the "school of hard knocks". This expression is that we have tried some things that seemed to make sense only to have them cost us tremendous amounts of time and money with little to show for it at the end. Sometimes we call this being "bit on the behind (as*)" by a well intentioned idea and project.

Ask any of us about mistakes and we will immediately laugh. We will show you, all too willingly, any one of a dozen issues/projects that went the wrong way and were a disaster on all accounts above. If ANYONE here says that the haven't made mistakes (actually multiple mistakes) - then they are a 100% liar and a fool.

We learn from mistakes. In seminars I give I often start out and say "listen to me, do NOT made the mistakes I have made".

But we laugh at ourselves and get a couple of us together and we will try to out beat the other with "stupid project" stories. This is a VERY common theme of us and an imaginary Ecorenovator convention would be a blast at the bar.

But we have also been very successful at putting together projects that really work. We have learned how classically trained engineers did not take full advantage of physical properties. Since we have lots of time, we can do projects that costs little, but require tedious time consuming efforts. We have learned how to minimize energy loss first and THEN create a machine that can then reduce the reduced costs afterwards.

AC is spot on with his comments on minimizing winter heat loss first by: 1) dramatically cutting wind infiltration, 2) adding appropriate insulation and then and ONLY then 3) putting in an energy efficient heat pump.

Many of us have been amazed at just how incredibly effective reducing wind infiltration is. But you can't "see it", it is hard to measure and thus it is "easier" to add insulation that you can see, touch and feel.

Multiple people on this thread have suggested this concept of "buttoning up" a heated space first, but the fascination we all have draws us to heat pumps. You can measure that heat output, see the reduction in kWhr consumption and it is fun building it. We all understand that fascination all too well.

But the reality is that reducing infiltration is virtually as powerful in terms of reducing your energy costs at FAR less cost/energy of putting together a home made or reconfigured heat pump.

Your country has different building construction techniques and some of them are very likely better than those in the USA, Canada, Australia, England, India, Yugoslavia, Denmark, Germany, Ireland (what country's members have I left out?). But we also suspect that some (many?) construction techniques in your country are just like ours - with poor pre-construction thought, shoddy construction, and even poorer performance.

Do not get discouraged. The new year will bring you ideas and thoughts that were not apparent before. Listen, learn and you will do fine.


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Old 01-02-17, 12:11 PM   #84
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Sorry if I ruffled your feathers with the unicorns reference. I am not trying to tell you what to watch on the internet, or what to have hope in. Just trying to keep this topic alive and moving forward.

A big problem I have noticed at work in general in the last few years ties right into this situation. Operators, material handlers, team leaders, and maintenance techs especially are using every spare moment on the job goofing off on their smartphones. If they aren't playing some online game, they are participating in the social media explosion. As a result, everywhere I go, I have to constantly be telling people to get off their phones and do their jobs.

Every week, I sit in meetings listening to how this activity is killing safety, quality, and productivity. Due to the nature of the business, contractors, executives and other salaried employees are tied to their phones as part of the job, so prohibiting usage is not possible. Most of those who aren't supposed to be on their phones point to the fact that many "important" workers are on their phones an hour a day or more in plain sight.

Due to this "double standard", the company has tasked leaders and middle-managers with observing and reporting people who know what they should be doing but choose otherwise. As to date, no one has been directly fired for goofing off on their cell phone unless it caused an accident. However, many have been suspended or laid off for other mistakes they have made on the job, just because they attracted a spotlight.

I'm not saying I'm more important than you or anything of the sort. What I am saying is that the internet has a way of leading people to spend their time, money and energy on things that serve no real purpose. Nearly everyone I know has spent too much time looking for something they can use on the web...myself included. It is super easy to spend a whole afternoon doing nothing useful on the internet.

That's one of the big reasons I was attracted to this forum. The "can do" attitude of members helping each other out is strong. Armchair "what if" discussions are conducted with a specific purpose in mind. Extravagant, unproven, or unrealistic claims are dissected with scrutiny. The structure and guidance helps keep us all focused on pursuing a definite benefit.

This is your topic, so you can write about whatever you want. I'm just saying that space alien technology isn't going to heat your home this winter. A phase change heat pump will.

Last edited by jeff5may; 01-02-17 at 12:25 PM.. Reason: spelling and such
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