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Old 05-06-09, 01:09 AM   #11
Ryland
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As I see it, it should be kept simple or nothing will happen.
Yes make a space for notes on the number of people, size of house, if you have PV or wind and maybe another line for natural gas or LP as well, but any other figures we need to figure out we can figure out on our own, or at a later date, but my main idea is that if we can look at "joe bob" over there and see that their bill is super low, check out the number of people i his house and his notes on what he is running and how it got that way, then everyone can get more ideas on how to do better.

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Old 05-06-09, 08:18 AM   #12
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That is probably the way we'll end up going just to get something up on the site initially. This reminds me I have to bug Darin about this.
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Old 05-06-09, 07:58 PM   #13
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always better to start simple and get it done. "Better" isn't better at all unless something already exists.
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Old 05-22-09, 09:21 AM   #14
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I've been tracking the power meter readings at my mum's house for the last 10 months or so, while my house is being built. So I can have a baseline to work against when we move in.

Looking at the spreadsheet now, it looks like an average of 0.92kWh per hour, or 22.15kWh per day. I can attach the spreadsheet if people want to use it - it tells me the cost and a bunch of averages and stuff. There was a gap of 3 months in there, though, so I lost the daily trend I was trying to get. But recently I've been a bit better.
Of course my house will be much smaller than mum's, so hopefully it'll be easier to keep the usage down.

Last week I tried an experiment where I turned almost everything off (the fridges, my laptop, and a radio were left on) and left the house for a couple of hours. That cost $0.05 per hour, and used 0.337kWh per hour. Then I came home and turned everything on. That cost $0.30 per hour and used 1.959kWh per hour! (I suspect most of that was the airconditioning.)


Anyway, it is a bit of a pain to have to go outside to take a photo of the meter (I use the timestamp to get the exact time between readings), so I'm looking into something like a kill-a-watt for my house. Perhaps something like the MPGuino? It would be useful for electric cars, too.
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Old 05-22-09, 03:51 PM   #15
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peak hours and off peak hours should be easy, as the addition of unit cost for each and subscription part.

For the CO2, at least an average should be known, but to be more precise, the averages for :
  • seasons : renewable energies are more used in summer (*)
  • and use of the electricity : the constant consumption is feeded by hydro () and nuclear () which generate less CO2, while heating is feeded by coal which generate more CO2.
(*) my provider broadcasts their monthly CO2 generation per kWh regularly.
All that to say that CO2 support may be complicated.

On my spreadsheet I record for each month :
  • Average off Peak kWh per day
  • Average peak kWh per day
  • Average cost per day (without subscription)
  • Average cost per kWh (without subscription)
  • and % of in/de-crease for these 4 with last month.

Denis.
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Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
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  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
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    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
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    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 05-29-09, 03:27 AM   #16
Piwoslaw
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Very good idea. I recorded the states of the electric, water and gas meters every day between 2000-2006, when still living in my Grandma's house. Unfortunately, after moving out she didn't continue.

After moving in with my Wife, I started recording the electric meter, now I have one year of data. The gas meter is in box out in the street, and only recently have I found a way to open it. One day I'd like to ask Dad-in-law where the bi-monthly gas bills from the previous years are stowed, this should give me an idea as to how much gas is needed for winter and summer. The water meter is in the basement, not too easy to get to, so I only check it every 10-15 days for the last half year.

When still at Grandma's, with 5 years of data, I entered everything into a spreadsheet, for every month I had total, average per day, max day and min day values. Those 4 were input into a month by month spreadsheet, calculated the multiyear average for each month, comparing each month's total to the multiyear average, etc.
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Old 02-26-10, 08:01 AM   #17
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Bumping this thread.
When reading about passive buildings I noticed that the units used to measure heating needs are kWh/m2/year. Of course, the same house will need less/more in a different location, but I think it's a good unit to add to this discussion.
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Old 03-19-10, 02:11 PM   #18
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I think degree days for your location are about the only way to get an accurate comparison of houses in different locations. Then with some discussion we can compare the differences between super insulated heavily shaded homes vs little insulation south facing full sun homes in winter. I'm sure some number can be created like kwh/degree day for comparison.

There should be 1 overall usage number probably in kwh where all categories are converted to 1 unit and added. This would allow my all electric house to compare to a gas/electric, oil/electric, whale oil/peddle power...

I personally track the following in separate spreadsheets
Water usage - meter read and billed quarterly
- billing date
- number of days on bill
- consumption in cubic meters
- cost of the water
I calculate
- consumption in gallons
- gallons/day
- cost per gallon
- decrease from last bill
- a seasonal chart to compare multiple years (we get billed 4 times a year)
Electric usage meter read and billed bi-monthly
- billing date
- number of days on bill
- kwh used
- total cost
- fees/taxes/surcharges/...
- usage charge
I calculate
- kwh/h
- kwh/day
- cost/kwh (total cost/kwh)

I don't have gas/oil/propane or anything like it.

Both my water and electric are tiered systems and they keep adjusting the tiers. I just track total cost and cost/gallon cost/kwh to keep a rough eye of how I'm doing.

I've been wanting to get degree days going in the calculations since my winter electric usage is far higher then my summer and this last bill was my worst ever (first winter in the new house which is 4 times the size of the old one). Having said that I haven't tracked down a good location that will let me get the information to calculate this. I can find some local stations that display the degree days for the month or today but it's not in a nice easy to grab chart.
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Old 03-19-10, 03:52 PM   #19
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I'll have to look around for degree day data in my area, and think about how to use it. I once stumbled across a chart with avg degree days, but I haven't found anything more detailed yet. I wonder if I can find a local meteo station, or will I have to do with data for the whole city. I live 20km from the city center, next to a forest, so it's always a few degrees colder here than in the "city" (even though I'm still within city limits).

I don't note prices. Maybe because they are misleading? I invested in insulating my Grandma's attic, claiming it will reduce heating costs. I could feel the difference, as since then the upstairs temperature never falls below 18C, before it would be 16C. But when the gas bill for the winter came, it was higher than in the previous years, so Grandma claimed it didn't work. I explained that
  • The winter was longer and colder than in previous years,
  • Gas prices went up 30% in the last year.
Even though we used less, we still paid more. Without insulation the bill would have been even higher. She still said it didn't work since the bill was higher.
Prices are tricky, as even if you record them to be able to see how they change over time, you should also record yearly inflation, etc.

Last edited by Piwoslaw; 03-19-10 at 04:11 PM..
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Old 03-19-10, 06:59 PM   #20
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Maybe use the "baseline" numbers on the bill? I think that's based on regional climate, though it doesn't seem to take into account household size or square feet.

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