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Old 09-20-13, 02:04 PM   #1
pinballlooking
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Default I am looking at heating and cooling options.

I have a 2100 sqft house single floor outside Greenville SC it is about 12 years old. We currently have AC with gas heat. I put in 12.5 kW solar and I am looking at some options to use some elect for heating.

My AC is 4 ton single stage 11 seer about 12 years old not one service call in that time.
My gas heat is 92.6 efficiency they are both Goodman the air handler runs at one speed. Gas heat has run flawless for 12 years.

I have a guy that will put in whatever system I get and let me share in the work he is HVAC certified. He charges me a fair price.

I have 8 acres so geothermal is an option. My neighbor has a small excavator than he will work with me on renting it or give me a good price on digging the horizontal loop.
I have a tractor with a blade and I can cover up the loops so that saves time and money.
My HVAC guy has installed geothermal and will help me install it.

In the cold winter will geothermal keep up with heating or will in need heat strips?

Could I keep my gas heat but use the geothermal air handler?

The other option is a two stage heat pump or an inverter heat pump. Could I keep my gas heat I have now?

I am not really sure what way would be better. I work from home so we use heat and AC 24/7 all year.

I even considered a mini split system but I think my house has to many rooms and we have 2 kids that need conditioned rooms.

Mark

I ended up installing 3 single head mini splits and one duel head unit.
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothe...t-install.html


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Old 09-20-13, 02:12 PM   #2
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A ground source heat pump properly sized should easily be able to take care of all of your heating and cooling needs. There are buildings in much more extreme climates that use ground source heat pumps as their only form of heat.

The main thing will be sizing it correctly, and for that I'l leave it up to the others here because I don't know how to do that.
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Old 09-20-13, 02:35 PM   #3
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I am getting a geothermal quote next week but ball park figures were 25,000, 27,000 and that would be over what I would want to spend.

One option (this one has 30% tax break.)
2 Stage Geothermal Heat Pump 4 Ton Install Package for Closed Loop Horizontal Application
$8,063.51 shipped
2 Stage Geothermal Heat Pump 4 Ton Install Package for Closed Loop Vertical Ap
This would guess this one to be 11-12k installed with my labor and contract help on some of it.

One option or a similar system. 4,352.55 I would guess this one to be 6-7K installed (I would just have it installed. No line set in this price.)
Goodman 4 Ton 17.75 SEER 96% AFUE Hybrid Dual Fuel Air Conditioner
https://www.acwholesalers.com/Goodma...ioner/28934.ac
After tax break these are not that far off each other.


Anyone have any suggestions? Anyone with geothermal tell me if they have to use heat strips much in the winter?

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Old 09-21-13, 10:42 AM   #4
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Since you live in the south, an ASHP might be less costly than a GSHP.
Cost of the hardware for buying a few mini-splits might be a bit higher,
but the install cost can be pretty low for a DIY guy with an HVAC buddy.
The time it takes to do a mini-split install is likely about 1/20th that of a GSHP.
But, if you are doing 90% of the labor, you might not care how long it takes.

I'm using two Sanyo Mini-Splits at my house (heating and cooling),
and they are very cheap to run.
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Old 09-23-13, 02:05 PM   #5
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Thanks for suggesting mini split units.
I am looking @LG LS090HYV 9,000 BTU 28 SEER Ductless Heat Pump.
https://www.acwholesalers.com/LG/LS0...FZSd4Aod-CYAXg
I could get one 9,000 btu and one 12,000 btu. Does anyone have any experience with LG mini split units?
I have never been around one of these. If you stand in front on one do feel the cold or hot air? Can they be mounted above a bed like in MB?
These are 28 SEER this may be a better way to go than Geothermal.
I could do the installs and just have my HVAC friend hook up the lines and check the charge.
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Old 09-23-13, 02:39 PM   #6
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The heating performance of the LG at LS090HYV is sub-par in my opinion. It's cooling performance numbers for SEER and EER look great and the HSPF rating looks great too but if you decide to use this unit for heating at 17f or below, you'll only get 6500BTUhr out of it at 17f. If you are also looking to heat with it you'll want to find your balance point and decide if its a suitable unit for you. LG doesn't have the highest reputation for reliability on contractor forums like hvac-talk.com

Ratings are found at www.ahridirectory.org, scroll down and choose Variable-Speed Mini-Split and Multi-Split Heat Pumps.

I've personally eyed units like the Fujitsu AOU9RLS2/ASU9RLS2 and the Panasonic CU-XE9PKUA/CS-XE9PKUA if you are going for a 9k unit and heating performance is also important to you. I'm personally in the market for a 12k unit to better cover my nearly 18k load so I'm looking at the 12k versions of those. In Minnesota with my current heat load, they hit their balance point a little below freezing which is also roughly where the cost balance point is too so for me I'd be undersized on heating but factoring in the cost of defrost cycles when it gets too cold, I think they are about right, natural gas is very cheap in my area but when I have my solar system installed, it will help to use electricity at the times its cheaper to run a heat pump versus natural gas.
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Old 09-23-13, 02:47 PM   #7
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Thanks for the links and the info I will check them out.
I really like the Fujitsu AOU9RLS2 but I read if you buy it online they will not warranty it. I have natural gas heat with 92.6 efficiency so if it gets below 30 I will just switch to gas heat. But it would be nice to use some solar when it is warmer. The 4 Ton AC I have is a hog so this could help me out.
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Old 09-23-13, 03:08 PM   #8
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Depending on the heat load of your house which depends on a number of factors including total wall square footage and how well its insulated and air sealed, you might get plenty of heat out of the unit when it is above freezing. Hard to tell, I know my heat load numbers from actual furnace runtimes to know that 10000 BTUhr of heat is about what I need to keep my 2100 sq ft house up to normal room temperature with a 30 degree outdoor temperature but I've got an unusual tall house design and I've improved my air sealing a bunch, still working on it though.

Regarding warranties, usually any system purchased online from most manufacturers will void the warranty, same goes for if you install it yourself. I personally think that the savings of buying it online and installing it myself are worth the loss of warranty coverage. Then again I don't have collision insurance on my car so I think certain risks are worth their reduced cost.

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Old 09-23-13, 03:24 PM   #9
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I have a TED-5000C energy monitor so I should be able to figure out where to best cut off to the gas heat.
I know some companies choose to void their warranty if you buy online I usually choose not to buy from them. My install will be completed and blessed by a HVAC guy so I am ok there.

I just called Panasonic support and if you buy their mini split online and have it installed by a HVAC guy they will warranty the unit.

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Old 09-23-13, 05:40 PM   #10
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Panasonic took over the Sanyo line of Mini-splits. So, when I have another problem,
I'll be calling Panasonic.
I'll have to check out my warranty.. Not sure how much time is left on what components..

Anyways, my installs are posted here, you should check them out..
See how a novice DIYer does it..
My old 24k BTU units will work pretty well down to about 5 deg F.
Below that, the start using higher power (leveling off at abt 1200w IRCC).

I have three little 1200w space heaters (12,283 BTUh total) to keep the chill out.
I've set them up a few times, but never really needed them.
Most of the time, it doesn't stay below 5F for very long..

I just went to the Panasonic site to check out their install training videos...
https://panasonichvac.adobeconnect.com/p78623823/
They are still using the Sanyo stuff..

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