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Old 04-20-12, 12:42 PM   #11
gasstingy
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OK, I was wrong in my previous post when I said they told me my order had shipped complete. I assumed it shipped complete because I did not scroll down on the UPS website after I input the tracking number and saw the expected delivery date. I tracked it again after I thought about it, and I'd already posted the previous comment. Turns out that in the tracking info, it showed 1 package shipped that weighed 3 pounds. Since their website said the vapor material I ordered weighed 88.01 pounds by itself, so had I paid attention, I would not have made a negative comment about Americover.

Now, moving on a bit. Last night I got home and the other package had arrived, a dandy of a roll of vapor barrier material! The packaging consisted of wrapping medium weight corrogated fiberboard {cfb} around the material to cover the long sides and barely any cfb material wrapped over the ends of the material. It didn't look like it hurt the ends to be exposed, but there was a spot on the side of the roll where the cfb was gouged. The vapor barrier material was skinned, but not punctured. I would call that a testament to the puncture resistance of their 12 mil thick material.

Now I have a project for this weekend. I hope to get most of the under porch work done Saturday, a rather tough time table for me because the wife has other plans for me after about 1:30 pm. Oh well, I have the rest of my life to complete all of my projects.

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Old 04-23-12, 07:44 AM   #12
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This is going to take a bit longer than I anticipated. I got my nephew to help me and we went under the front porch and measured for the first piece. I also noted how much broken concrete block and rock was left under there from the original construction.

Anyway, after we got out from under the porch, we unrolled some vapor material and cut a piece 54' by 10' 6", folded it in half lengthwise and rolled it up. When we went back under the porch, we carried a 5 gallon bucket for hauling out block and rock. {I should mention that we have 33" headroom under there, so it could be worse.} A couple bucket loads of rock and the situation looked much better on that front. The dirt was heaped up down the center of the under porch area from where it had been dug out to build the foundation. Using a shovel {digging with the blade end upside down was the only way to use it} and a steel rake, we loosened the dirt and raked it out to level the area some. It helped. We have ~ 7' wide area to cover and are going to roll some up the wall and secure it. BTW, folding it in half was a bad idea. It was hard to unfold and tug into position. Next piece will be folded for easier installation.

We quit after about 6 hours work, because I just am not up to more heavy, bent over work in one days time. I felt way too bad Sunday to go back under. I hope to do more this evening and I'll download a couple pictures to show my progress and my biggest mistake. It happened at the intersection of a roll of plastic and a 500w halogen floodlight. Oops.

More soon.

OK, I've recovered a few pictures and wanted to put them with the appropriate post. A look at the way the Vapor Barrier Material {VBM} was shipped, after I peeled the plastic loose from one end. Rolling it out on the garage/workshop floor and finally where it spent a few moments too close to my halogen work light while my back was turned.
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Last edited by gasstingy; 04-26-12 at 07:06 AM.. Reason: Add pictures
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Old 04-25-12, 07:43 AM   #13
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Sorry to be behind the power curve on posting pictures. Our Kodak 7mp camera quit taking pictures saying the internal memory was full. I figured I could just download the SD card for the pictures. It's a 2 GB card and it was full. 861 pictures! Not one from this project. After I downloaded the couple of pictures I had not already moved to my PC, I deleted all the others and then looked at the pictures in the cameras internal memory. They are all there, I just have to read the manual to remember how to download them.

On Monday evening, we took another piece of vapor material and rolled it out under the side porch. That area is about 3' wide and the height varies from the 33" of the front porch height to about 60" or so where it meets the back porch. I had taken the 54' long, 3' wide scrap piece I cut off of the piece under the front porch and cut it to its 32' length for the side porch. I took the 22' remainder and overlapped it by 6" lengthwise and taped it front and back. Then I unrolled another 3' from the roll {remember, the roll is 13'4" wide} and finished the remaining 10' from that piece. This left only a small amount of scrap that I'll probably use around a pier under the house. After taping the pieces together, I had a piece 32' long and 64" wide. Laying it face up, we rolled both sides over so that the two side portions would rest on top of the portion that would lay on the ground. Sorta' like /__\. Then we took that under the house and rolled it out. Much, much easier than folding it in half and being on top of it while trying to unfold it.

My nephew worked under the house yesterday, starting before I got home. We are pulling all the fiberglass insulation out from underneath, rolling it up in as tight a roll as reasonable, taping the rolls and stuffing them in 30 gallon trash bags. While there is some mold on the floor joists, it's not as bad as my fears had me expecting. Still, I have great {read: expensive} plans for under the house and it does not include 90% or more relative humidity. If all goes well, next week the Spray Tech guy will spray 2" closed cell foam on the underside of the floor and coat all the joists with a thin layer just as a way to keep moisture off the floor joists and rim joist.

If I haven't shared what the driving motivation is behind this work, I am planning to build a new solar array to expand on the 1050w my wife and I already have. The inverter and a breaker box is going to be mounted under the house. The underfloor area is always cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter, so it should make life easier for our Sunny Boy.

I added this picture of my nephew Daniel and myself taping together the piece of VBM that goes under the side porch.
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Last edited by gasstingy; 04-26-12 at 07:08 AM.. Reason: Add picture
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Old 04-25-12, 08:50 AM   #14
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Just a heads up. Tremco is about the only thing I have found to reliably adhere to poly

Dealing with these kinds of crawl spaces is always rough and I have yet to find an approach I like. And I've tried them all.
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Old 04-25-12, 09:01 AM   #15
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I'm not familiar with Tremco, so I suspect I'll have to Google it soon. The two websites I looked at for the vapor barrier material both showed using a polyurethane adhesive that comes in a caulk tube to hold the material to the walls. I bought several tubes this past weekend. The websites and the adhesive instructions still call for mechanical fastening while the adhesive cures {24 hours}. They show drilling 1/4" holes in the blocks every foot or so and sticking in a little plastic fastener.

The fastener looks like something you'd find holding upholstery trim panels in place in your car.
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Old 04-25-12, 09:39 AM   #16
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What I usually end up doing is gluing everything together with Tremco (which is an acoustical sealant) with an overlap of about 2' and French seams, running the VB up the wall, gluing it in place and the spray foaming the wall from floor to band joist. It blows. I think if I had a house like this I'd put down poly and pour a slab over it.
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Old 04-25-12, 12:59 PM   #17
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I think if I had a house like this I'd put down poly and pour a slab over it.
I have thought about that, too. It's just a good bit more money than I am willing to spend without trying other {possible} solutions first.

We have a strong room under the back porch and our plan, as of about three weeks ago, is to dig out some dirt from the door to the strong room and pour it in concrete. That's no where near the top of the to-do list, though. I have made commitments that absorb the vast majority of our savings, and to commit to more would not likely be wife-friendly.

I looked up the Tremco website and there is quite the selection of products available. When you referred to using the Tremco to bond polyurethane, did you mean poly to poly, poly to the block wall or both?
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Old 04-25-12, 01:24 PM   #18
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Poly to anything. Tremco is a great product. It remains sticky even after decades and it sticks to anything.
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Old 04-25-12, 01:37 PM   #19
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Poly to anything. Tremco is a great product. It remains sticky even after decades and it sticks to anything.
I was trying to find information on this stuff and I'm seeing tons of products but no acoustical sealant. Which item should I be looking at from their site?
Products - Tremco Commercial Sealants & Waterproofing
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Old 04-25-12, 01:39 PM   #20
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Tremco Acoustical Sealant - Tremco Commercial Sealants & Waterproofing

There are other acoustical caulks but Tremco is a pretty popular and time tested one. I like to use it for all work with poly and any indoor caulking where there will be no painting or touching. You actually might be able to paint it. Not sure as I never use it for those purposes. I think its intended purpose was to seal corner seams in drywall when there is resilient channel behind the rock so the wall can actually move a little bit.

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You know you're an ecorenovator if anything worth insulating is worth superinsulating.
Quote:
S-F: "What happens when you slam the door on a really tight house? Do the basement windows blow out?"

Green Building Guru: "You can't slam the door on a really tight house. You have to work to pull it shut."

Last edited by S-F; 04-25-12 at 01:43 PM..
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