Electric Tankless Water Heater

stefanc · 11-06-11, 03:57 PM

Does anyone here have experience with electric on demand heaters? Looking for some energy consumption numbers over a standard tank.

I'm pretty sure my 17 year old 40gal hot water heater is on it's way out. I don't have access to NG. I do have a large propane tank but would rather not plumb the lines and the vent. So that leaves me with either a conventional tank, heat pump tank or a tankless even though LP would be slightly cheaper to run.

Eventually the heater will be just a backup for the future solar DHW setup so I'm trying to avoid a tank setup that will take up even more space.

I've been looking at the hybrid heater below but haven't been able to find any info or reviews other then what is on the website. Lifetime warranty sounds good, along with the price.

Eagle HYBRID Electric Tankless Hot Water Heater

iamgeo · 11-06-11, 07:22 PM

I have an electric tankless water heater. Wish I could tell you if there is any actual savings vs a traditional water heater.
The one I bought was about $800 4 years ago. Then it cost $750 in parts and labor(wires and double throw breaker) to have the wires run from the main electrical box to the tankless.
You can not just plug a tankless into the socket that the tank water heater plugged into. In retrospect I would have mounted the tankless right next to the main power source for the house. That would have put it in my bedroom. Way less expensive to run pvc pipe then copper wire.

Moral to the story: There are hidden costs to getting it set up. Do your homework.

iamgeo · 11-06-11, 07:38 PM

I just read a few pages of the link you posted.
I am very leary of this particular unit.
The website is very cheesy.
The claims made on the site are just a little to good to be true.
Personally, I would pass on EAGLE HYBRID ELECTRIC TANKLESS WATERS.

Daox · 11-07-11, 09:27 AM

I recently put in a Steibl Eltron DHC-E 10 unit and love it so far. You can read about it here. It was really easy to install myself and has been working great. With me and my wife in the house I find that we use ~2-4 kWh/day for hot water. I don't see any reason to go with a tank water heater if you're going to go with electric hot water. You can get units for under $200 that should handle a household's water.

The DHC-E units are a little smarter than the DHC series in that they monitor outlet temperature. The DHC series (and most other electric tankless heaters) just dump X amount of power into the water and the water is heated up to whatever temperature it gets to. If the inlet temperature rises so does the outlet temperature. This is fine if you have a constant inlet temperature. However, these aren't recommended with solar hot water setups due to the variable inlet temperature. The DHC-E uses an outlet temperature sensor and you set the outlet temperature. The heater only puts in enough power to heat the water to the specified setting. If the water is already hot enough it doesn't even turn on. This is the one you want if you're thinking of future solar hot water.

The one downside is that these heaters require a lot of power when they are on. Mine is relatively small and I needed a 40A breaker for it. It will only heat water for one shower or faucet at a time. The copper wire is expensive, especially if you get a larger unit. I was able to get away with 25 feet of 8ga wire which wasn't too bad.

Unfortunately, I can't say anything for $ savings as I went from a horribly inefficient natural gas heater to this tankless unit. For me, the cost stayed about the same, but my household energy usage went down quite a bit when you consider how inefficient the natural gas heater was.

stefanc · 11-07-11, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamgeo

I just read a few pages of the link you posted.
I am very leary of this particular unit.
The website is very cheesy.
The claims made on the site are just a little to good to be true.
Personally, I would pass on EAGLE HYBRID ELECTRIC TANKLESS WATERS.

I agree on the site bieng cheesy and the claims bieng a bit outlandish. I'm probably gonna pass on the "eagle," just because I haven't found any other info about it other then what's on their site. I know about the additional wiring also, I left a spot in my breaker box for the 2nd breaker.

stefanc · 11-07-11, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daox

I recently put in a Steibl Eltron DHC-E 10 unit and love it so far. You can read about it here. It was really easy to install myself and has been working great. With me and my wife in the house I find that we use ~2-4 kWh/day for hot water. I don't see any reason to go with a tank water heater if you're going to go with electric hot water. You can get units for under $200 that should handle a household's water.

The DHC-E units are a little smarter than the DHC series in that they monitor outlet temperature. The DHC series (and most other electric tankless heaters) just dump X amount of power into the water and the water is heated up to whatever temperature it gets to. If the inlet temperature rises so does the outlet temperature. This is fine if you have a constant inlet temperature. However, these aren't recommended with solar hot water setups due to the variable inlet temperature. The DHC-E uses an outlet temperature sensor and you set the outlet temperature. The heater only puts in enough power to heat the water to the specified setting. If the water is already hot enough it doesn't even turn on. This is the one you want if you're thinking of future solar hot water.

The one downside is that these heaters require a lot of power when they are on. Mine is relatively small and I needed a 40A breaker for it. It will only heat water for one shower or faucet at a time. The copper wire is expensive, especially if you get a larger unit. I was able to get away with 25 feet of 8ga wire which wasn't too bad.

Unfortunately, I can't say anything for $ savings as I went from a horribly inefficient natural gas heater to this tankless unit. For me, the cost stayed about the same, but my household energy usage went down quite a bit when you consider how inefficient the natural gas heater was.

Great info, Thanks! I might take a look at the larger Tempra units Steibel offers.

Ryland · 11-07-11, 08:39 PM

I don't like the tank less water heaters, unless you live alone and don't use hot water every day, if you use very much hot water or have regular patterns then get a tank and if you want to save money put a timer on it, LP water heaters can be timed if they have a forced exhaust fan, if you really want to save space there are some very small tank water heaters that are more or less an on demand water heater with a tank buffer.
Heating with LP and heating with electricity are both expensive and can vary depending on where you live so it's worth doing a little research and math, Natural Gas tends to be one of the cheapest, if you can get it and the heat pump water heaters are also on par with natural gas, they also dry the air so if your water heater is in a damp location it will take care of a lot of that moisture.

stefanc · 11-07-11, 08:46 PM

The heater will end up bieng a backup for the future solar so the demand on the new heater should be low. Also, I'm gonna have a huge solar tank in the basement so the tankless will fit nicely on the wall above it, instead of a tank taking up more floorspace.

05-16-12, 08:04 AM

I agree the web site is a bit off. Considered buying one. The web site has no phone number and no address. Can only order on line. I asked them to call so I could ask questions. They did not. Paypal did not work on their site. Last time that happened to me was a scam site. I wonder if they are legit, but cannot confirm or deny. They get "snarky" in email replies to questions. I am not buying from them. Was hoping to buy made in the USA. Not from them at this point. I also find it interesting the only positive reviews I could find were on their web site "testimonial area".
pablo

11-06-11, 03:57 PM	#1
stefanc Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 33 Thanks: 9 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Electric Tankless Water Heater Does anyone here have experience with electric on demand heaters? Looking for some energy consumption numbers over a standard tank. I'm pretty sure my 17 year old 40gal hot water heater is on it's way out. I don't have access to NG. I do have a large propane tank but would rather not plumb the lines and the vent. So that leaves me with either a conventional tank, heat pump tank or a tankless even though LP would be slightly cheaper to run. Eventually the heater will be just a backup for the future solar DHW setup so I'm trying to avoid a tank setup that will take up even more space. I've been looking at the hybrid heater below but haven't been able to find any info or reviews other then what is on the website. Lifetime warranty sounds good, along with the price. Eagle HYBRID Electric Tankless Hot Water Heater

11-06-11, 07:22 PM	#2
iamgeo Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lakehills, Tx Posts: 168 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	I have an electric tankless water heater. Wish I could tell you if there is any actual savings vs a traditional water heater. The one I bought was about $800 4 years ago. Then it cost $750 in parts and labor(wires and double throw breaker) to have the wires run from the main electrical box to the tankless. You can not just plug a tankless into the socket that the tank water heater plugged into. In retrospect I would have mounted the tankless right next to the main power source for the house. That would have put it in my bedroom. Way less expensive to run pvc pipe then copper wire. Moral to the story: There are hidden costs to getting it set up. Do your homework. Last edited by iamgeo; 11-06-11 at 07:24 PM..

11-07-11, 09:27 AM	#4
Daox Administrator Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Germantown, WI Posts: 5,525 Thanks: 1,162 Thanked 374 Times in 305 Posts	I recently put in a Steibl Eltron DHC-E 10 unit and love it so far. You can read about it here. It was really easy to install myself and has been working great. With me and my wife in the house I find that we use ~2-4 kWh/day for hot water. I don't see any reason to go with a tank water heater if you're going to go with electric hot water. You can get units for under $200 that should handle a household's water. The DHC-E units are a little smarter than the DHC series in that they monitor outlet temperature. The DHC series (and most other electric tankless heaters) just dump X amount of power into the water and the water is heated up to whatever temperature it gets to. If the inlet temperature rises so does the outlet temperature. This is fine if you have a constant inlet temperature. However, these aren't recommended with solar hot water setups due to the variable inlet temperature. The DHC-E uses an outlet temperature sensor and you set the outlet temperature. The heater only puts in enough power to heat the water to the specified setting. If the water is already hot enough it doesn't even turn on. This is the one you want if you're thinking of future solar hot water. The one downside is that these heaters require a lot of power when they are on. Mine is relatively small and I needed a 40A breaker for it. It will only heat water for one shower or faucet at a time. The copper wire is expensive, especially if you get a larger unit. I was able to get away with 25 feet of 8ga wire which wasn't too bad. Unfortunately, I can't say anything for $ savings as I went from a horribly inefficient natural gas heater to this tankless unit. For me, the cost stayed about the same, but my household energy usage went down quite a bit when you consider how inefficient the natural gas heater was. __________________ Current project - To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. & To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

05-16-12, 08:04 AM	#9
pablo Guest Posts: n/a	Eagle Hybrid Tankless I agree the web site is a bit off. Considered buying one. The web site has no phone number and no address. Can only order on line. I asked them to call so I could ask questions. They did not. Paypal did not work on their site. Last time that happened to me was a scam site. I wonder if they are legit, but cannot confirm or deny. They get "snarky" in email replies to questions. I am not buying from them. Was hoping to buy made in the USA. Not from them at this point. I also find it interesting the only positive reviews I could find were on their web site "testimonial area". pablo

11-06-11, 07:38 PM	#3
iamgeo Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lakehills, Tx Posts: 168 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	I just read a few pages of the link you posted. I am very leary of this particular unit. The website is very cheesy. The claims made on the site are just a little to good to be true. Personally, I would pass on EAGLE HYBRID ELECTRIC TANKLESS WATERS.

11-07-11, 08:39 PM	#7
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	I don't like the tank less water heaters, unless you live alone and don't use hot water every day, if you use very much hot water or have regular patterns then get a tank and if you want to save money put a timer on it, LP water heaters can be timed if they have a forced exhaust fan, if you really want to save space there are some very small tank water heaters that are more or less an on demand water heater with a tank buffer. Heating with LP and heating with electricity are both expensive and can vary depending on where you live so it's worth doing a little research and math, Natural Gas tends to be one of the cheapest, if you can get it and the heat pump water heaters are also on par with natural gas, they also dry the air so if your water heater is in a damp location it will take care of a lot of that moisture.

11-07-11, 08:46 PM	#8
stefanc Helper EcoRenovator Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 33 Thanks: 9 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The heater will end up bieng a backup for the future solar so the demand on the new heater should be low. Also, I'm gonna have a huge solar tank in the basement so the tankless will fit nicely on the wall above it, instead of a tank taking up more floorspace.