California permit cost $824.50 to install PV.

Xringer · 11-28-10, 04:08 PM

The Permit story is in this blog, "permit for solar panels in west covina"..

http://blog.gogreensolar.com/2010/01...st-covina.html

"solar panels + grid alternatives = fun" at

http://blog.gogreensolar.com/2009/09...tives-fun.html

is interesting Install of 7 Canadian Solar 200 watt (CS6PE) solar panels..

strider3700 · 11-28-10, 05:09 PM

I have yet to talk with my building department but I am worried about this aspect of my solar hotwater install.

Everything being home built on the solar end isn't going to help so I don't think it's necessary to mention it. I should have to do my basic safety requirements like a tempering valve and I believe they will require a double check valve which is fine and beyond that I don't see why they should care.

They of course will charge me for the permit/inspection and then pass the note along to the assessment people who will increase the value of my property and tax me a little more next year and forever after...

My whole install is looking like it will come in under $1000. They will determine the value of the changes using commercial rates and charge me accordingly. I could easily be looking at 30% of my costs in permits...

Xringer · 11-28-10, 05:43 PM

It looks like they want you to install Solar HW, but they want you to call in the pros..
Households | SolarBC

I remember back many years ago, when I installed hot water panels.
All I got was the run-around from city hall, so I just forgot about it..

A year or two later, some inspector drove by and saw the Novan panels on the roof..
I ended up making up some drawings for them. Used the big blue print machine at work.
The inspector came and check it out.. He liked it.. I don't recall paying them anything..

Of course, today it's a PIA just to get a permit to basic wiring. They hate giving permits
to non-pros..

One of the comments in the blog was interesting..

"
That's an amazing story. It seems like you were penalized for their incompetence and failure to stay up-to-date. They should farm out their solar permitting to other cities/agencies that are more facile and comfortable with it.

The expediting process is also a racket. You get worse service for paying more...and are more likely to get dinged and stonewalled. They should disclose that up front, before taking your fee.

The real kicker is that you're knowledgeable about the process and that you're basically setting up off-the-shelf equipment. I think that West Covina -- which, if we're honest, isn't unlike most cities for these sorts of failures -- preys on those who are not experts. It's a pretty good gig as long as they can get away with it. But considering these departments are there to serve the citizens, the systemic, collective mindset in West Covina city hall totally fails to fulfill its core mission. This sort of quality control and customer service meltdown indicates a huge management problem and a culture/ethos that someone has ignored or chosen not to rectify. Let's hope they wake up and decide to change course because your problem may be just the tip of an iceberg.
"

strider3700 · 11-28-10, 07:32 PM

they are pushing pro's but I know at least 1 other guy in bc as got a builditsolar $1000 system passed. He needed to have the plumbing done by a licensed plumber which was an issue where he lived but didn't say much else. I'll email him later tonight to see what he had to do.

Ryland · 11-29-10, 12:00 AM

So it took him 12 days instead of 7 days and he paid extra to have something pushed thru that his city had never dealt with! he should have started out calling up guy who did the permitting and asking him politely what he needed to do to make their job go smoothly, instead of dropping a rushed permit on them then going in to pester them time after time, if someone did that to me of course I would pass it on to others to check over extra close.
If he had wanted to build a porch, or something common of course a rushed permit is going to go smoothly, they check off their list of things for that type of project and rubber stamp it.

Xringer · 11-29-10, 07:09 AM

"he should have started out calling up guy who did the permitting
and asking him politely what he needed to do to make their job go smoothly,"

Around here, someone that went to an inspector and did that,
is probably wearing a 'wire' or prepared to shell out a little walking around money.

Ryland · 11-29-10, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

"he should have started out calling up guy who did the permitting
and asking him politely what he needed to do to make their job go smoothly,"

Around here, someone that went to an inspector and did that,
is probably wearing a 'wire' or prepared to shell out a little walking around money.

Really? my dad did that for both his wind and solar install before filing for a permit, if nothing else it gives the inspector and plans review people a heads up on what will be showing up on their desk, I think with the wind tower they ended up decided that it was far enough from the property line that he didn't even need a permit.
having sat in on some city council meetings and having a few friends who are on the city council, I know that they don't like to be rushed and they don't like surprises and they like to ask questions about new things that are put in front of them and that if you rush them on things that are new to them or that they are unsure on they will drag their feet and give you the run around, so yes, calling them up and telling them that you want to do a project that they have not dealt with before and that you want to know what hoops you need to jump thru is going to be a good idea.

strider3700 · 12-01-10, 04:23 PM

I asked the building permit people about my system this afternoon. At first they figured no permit required then thought about it and said submit drawings for approval. It will probably be considered a basic plumbing change which is charged based on the number of fixtures with a basic fee of $40. $8 per fixture after that. So my thought here is I need the basic fee and thats it. They suggested the same so long as the panels aren't on the roof. If they where then I need to know weights of them and the build of the roof.... My panels will be on the ground....

So now I need to do some nice drawings up and add the necessities to it. Basically a back flow preventer was all they specified as necessary at the counter but they where very vague probably so it doesn't get into a "But you said..." situation.

Xringer · 12-01-10, 07:26 PM

As more and more people start wanting to do DIY green projects, those that live off
the taxpayers are slowing starting to understand they must learn new things.
They may even find those new things interesting.

But, after downloading and reading some of the stuff, like this title.
ELECTRONIC VERSION 1.9
Dated November 26, 2008
Photovoltaic Power Systems
And the 2005 National Electrical Code:
Suggested Practices

I have a feeling that many people aren't going to take the time to read and understand the almost new technologies.

I'll bet that fully half of cities and towns will not like the 'new' Enphase GTIs.
(That mount outdoors, right next to the PV panel).

The old-school inspectors will want that PV DC to come off the roof in steel conduit, down the outside of your house,
to the cut-off box before it goes to any inverter..
What? An inverter for every panel?? And you want to bring 220vac right into the roof??
NO WAY! We are going to do this like it was 1992!

Ryland · 12-02-10, 11:24 AM

I worked for 4 years building straw houses and super insulated houses, inspectors can be slow on the uptake of new information but that is mostly because if they screw up it's their job that is on the line, but if you treat them as someone that you are working with and let them know that your priorities are that your system be safe, work well and have a long life span, then they tend to be more willing to work with you.

11-28-10, 04:08 PM	#1
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	California permit cost $824.50 to install PV. The Permit story is in this blog, "permit for solar panels in west covina".. http://blog.gogreensolar.com/2010/01...st-covina.html "solar panels + grid alternatives = fun" at http://blog.gogreensolar.com/2009/09...tives-fun.html is interesting Install of 7 Canadian Solar 200 watt (CS6PE) solar panels.. Last edited by Xringer; 11-28-10 at 04:16 PM..

11-28-10, 05:43 PM	#3
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	It looks like they want you to install Solar HW, but they want you to call in the pros.. Households \| SolarBC I remember back many years ago, when I installed hot water panels. All I got was the run-around from city hall, so I just forgot about it.. A year or two later, some inspector drove by and saw the Novan panels on the roof.. I ended up making up some drawings for them. Used the big blue print machine at work. The inspector came and check it out.. He liked it.. I don't recall paying them anything.. Of course, today it's a PIA just to get a permit to basic wiring. They hate giving permits to non-pros.. One of the comments in the blog was interesting.. " That's an amazing story. It seems like you were penalized for their incompetence and failure to stay up-to-date. They should farm out their solar permitting to other cities/agencies that are more facile and comfortable with it. The expediting process is also a racket. You get worse service for paying more...and are more likely to get dinged and stonewalled. They should disclose that up front, before taking your fee. The real kicker is that you're knowledgeable about the process and that you're basically setting up off-the-shelf equipment. I think that West Covina -- which, if we're honest, isn't unlike most cities for these sorts of failures -- preys on those who are not experts. It's a pretty good gig as long as they can get away with it. But considering these departments are there to serve the citizens, the systemic, collective mindset in West Covina city hall totally fails to fulfill its core mission. This sort of quality control and customer service meltdown indicates a huge management problem and a culture/ethos that someone has ignored or chosen not to rectify. Let's hope they wake up and decide to change course because your problem may be just the tip of an iceberg. " Last edited by Xringer; 11-28-10 at 05:46 PM.. Reason: Adding comment

11-28-10, 05:09 PM	#2
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	I have yet to talk with my building department but I am worried about this aspect of my solar hotwater install. Everything being home built on the solar end isn't going to help so I don't think it's necessary to mention it. I should have to do my basic safety requirements like a tempering valve and I believe they will require a double check valve which is fine and beyond that I don't see why they should care. They of course will charge me for the permit/inspection and then pass the note along to the assessment people who will increase the value of my property and tax me a little more next year and forever after... My whole install is looking like it will come in under $1000. They will determine the value of the changes using commercial rates and charge me accordingly. I could easily be looking at 30% of my costs in permits...

11-28-10, 07:32 PM	#4
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	they are pushing pro's but I know at least 1 other guy in bc as got a builditsolar $1000 system passed. He needed to have the plumbing done by a licensed plumber which was an issue where he lived but didn't say much else. I'll email him later tonight to see what he had to do.

11-29-10, 12:00 AM	#5
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	So it took him 12 days instead of 7 days and he paid extra to have something pushed thru that his city had never dealt with! he should have started out calling up guy who did the permitting and asking him politely what he needed to do to make their job go smoothly, instead of dropping a rushed permit on them then going in to pester them time after time, if someone did that to me of course I would pass it on to others to check over extra close. If he had wanted to build a porch, or something common of course a rushed permit is going to go smoothly, they check off their list of things for that type of project and rubber stamp it.

11-29-10, 07:09 AM	#6
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	"he should have started out calling up guy who did the permitting and asking him politely what he needed to do to make their job go smoothly," Around here, someone that went to an inspector and did that, is probably wearing a 'wire' or prepared to shell out a little walking around money.

12-01-10, 04:23 PM	#8
strider3700 Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Vancouver Island BC Posts: 745 Thanks: 23 Thanked 37 Times in 30 Posts	I asked the building permit people about my system this afternoon. At first they figured no permit required then thought about it and said submit drawings for approval. It will probably be considered a basic plumbing change which is charged based on the number of fixtures with a basic fee of $40. $8 per fixture after that. So my thought here is I need the basic fee and thats it. They suggested the same so long as the panels aren't on the roof. If they where then I need to know weights of them and the build of the roof.... My panels will be on the ground.... So now I need to do some nice drawings up and add the necessities to it. Basically a back flow preventer was all they specified as necessary at the counter but they where very vague probably so it doesn't get into a "But you said..." situation.

12-01-10, 07:26 PM	#9
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	As more and more people start wanting to do DIY green projects, those that live off the taxpayers are slowing starting to understand they must learn new things. They may even find those new things interesting. But, after downloading and reading some of the stuff, like this title. ELECTRONIC VERSION 1.9 Dated November 26, 2008 Photovoltaic Power Systems And the 2005 National Electrical Code: Suggested Practices I have a feeling that many people aren't going to take the time to read and understand the almost new technologies. I'll bet that fully half of cities and towns will not like the 'new' Enphase GTIs. (That mount outdoors, right next to the PV panel). The old-school inspectors will want that PV DC to come off the roof in steel conduit, down the outside of your house, to the cut-off box before it goes to any inverter.. What? An inverter for every panel?? And you want to bring 220vac right into the roof?? NO WAY! We are going to do this like it was 1992!

12-02-10, 11:24 AM	#10
Ryland Master EcoRenovator Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Western Wisconsin. Posts: 913 Thanks: 127 Thanked 82 Times in 71 Posts	I worked for 4 years building straw houses and super insulated houses, inspectors can be slow on the uptake of new information but that is mostly because if they screw up it's their job that is on the line, but if you treat them as someone that you are working with and let them know that your priorities are that your system be safe, work well and have a long life span, then they tend to be more willing to work with you.