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Old 01-20-14, 11:28 AM   #21
stevehull
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Servicetech,

I have not looked at the new T5 lighting system. Is it the bulb or the fixture (ballast) in the T5 that is so expensive (or both).

Compared to LEDs, I believe that the T8 bulbs have a higher lumen output per watt of electricity - but need to find that documentation.

Anyone have that handy? And do you also have the new T5 information?

On the reduction of average use per household - I believe that we are just starting to the fruits of the labors with regard to "Energy Star" programs. There are some reviews that are nonsense (such as comparing electric resistance dryers for example). But overall, people DO pay attention to the "MPG" of their appliances, just as they do when they buy cars.

I look for a maintained and further flattening of the power demand curve over the next few years and see decommissioning of older coal fired (single cycle burners) rapidly as natural gas, photovoltaic and other technologies achieve parity (or significantly lower costs) compared to coal costs.

More and more utilities in the south require a balancing of their summer vs. winter power peaks. Typically, power demand, in the south peaks in the summer with AC use and is 1/2 to 1/3 that in the winter. Nevertheless, thy have to have the total capacity to achieve that summer peak with a significant fraction of generation capacity frankly idle in winter.

Use of geothermal technology on an industrial scale is just starting and that lowers the summer peak and increases the winter peak. That decreases the need for building more power plants. The start of this in residential is actually less than industrial.

I am excited to see this having been told by the electric utilities for decades that we MUST preplan for 5-7% increase in electrical demand per year (doubling of capacity every 10-12 years).

In general, utility commissions get what they demand and in the past got the go ahead to build the plants that we look at today with concern. But today, many utilities are looking VERY hard at distributed energy sources (residential PV, small scale wind, biomass, etc) as a way to rationally curtain costs, offer better services and allows better services in emergencies (such as when one part of the distribution system gets cut of by a natural disaster).

This is REALLY good news!

Steve

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Old 01-20-14, 01:23 PM   #22
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I got my information on watt output from here Lumens Per Watt Lamping Comparison - Light Bulbs at a Glance

Last edited by ecomodded; 01-20-14 at 01:27 PM..
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Old 01-20-14, 04:15 PM   #23
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Thanks - it appears that the T5 bulbs are at about 100 lumens per watt and last about 30,000 hours. If the bulb is on for 8 hours per day, then that is about 15 year lifetime!

How about cost comparing T5 and T8?

Steve
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Old 01-20-14, 04:28 PM   #24
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I converted my kitchen fluorescent light to LED replacements. Cool White (5800K) - Clear

DirectLED FL, Fluorescent Replacement Tube, T8, T10, T12 | The EarthLED Store

2 15 watts each LED replacements from 4 fluorescent tubes.
The replacements do not use ballast
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Old 01-20-14, 07:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecomodded View Post
I got my information on watt output from here Lumens Per Watt Lamping Comparison - Light Bulbs at a Glance
They mostly sell LED lighting, think they may be just a little biased? The 75 lumen per watt listed in the link earlier is more typical than 100 lumen per watt. The T-8 I linked to earlier is 80 Lumen per watt, and can be bought at any Lowe's which is in most parts of the country.

Last edited by Servicetech; 01-20-14 at 07:49 PM..
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Old 01-20-14, 07:53 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehull View Post
Servicetech,

I have not looked at the new T5 lighting system. Is it the bulb or the fixture (ballast) in the T5 that is so expensive (or both).

Compared to LEDs, I believe that the T8 bulbs have a higher lumen output per watt of electricity - but need to find that documentation.

Anyone have that handy? And do you also have the new T5 information?

On the reduction of average use per household - I believe that we are just starting to the fruits of the labors with regard to "Energy Star" programs. There are some reviews that are nonsense (such as comparing electric resistance dryers for example). But overall, people DO pay attention to the "MPG" of their appliances, just as they do when they buy cars.

I look for a maintained and further flattening of the power demand curve over the next few years and see decommissioning of older coal fired (single cycle burners) rapidly as natural gas, photovoltaic and other technologies achieve parity (or significantly lower costs) compared to coal costs.

More and more utilities in the south require a balancing of their summer vs. winter power peaks. Typically, power demand, in the south peaks in the summer with AC use and is 1/2 to 1/3 that in the winter. Nevertheless, thy have to have the total capacity to achieve that summer peak with a significant fraction of generation capacity frankly idle in winter.

Use of geothermal technology on an industrial scale is just starting and that lowers the summer peak and increases the winter peak. That decreases the need for building more power plants. The start of this in residential is actually less than industrial.

I am excited to see this having been told by the electric utilities for decades that we MUST preplan for 5-7% increase in electrical demand per year (doubling of capacity every 10-12 years).

In general, utility commissions get what they demand and in the past got the go ahead to build the plants that we look at today with concern. But today, many utilities are looking VERY hard at distributed energy sources (residential PV, small scale wind, biomass, etc) as a way to rationally curtain costs, offer better services and allows better services in emergencies (such as when one part of the distribution system gets cut of by a natural disaster).

This is REALLY good news!

Steve
Our utility is going to time of use pricing for manage summer peak demand. Electricity goes to about 1/2 price once you go over 600KWH in a month during the winter. OG+E is trying to use some of the "idle winter capacity" by encouraging all electric homes. Solar is nice because peak output is at the time of peak demand on the grid.
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Old 01-21-14, 10:55 AM   #27
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I agree with you servicetech, that site i linked to is in the business of LED's as such being salesmen they are not trust worthy..
So I have been looking at LED lumen per watt in current bulbs for sale and then ones i noticed and currently for sale were 80 -84 lumen per Watt.

I happened upon some good news for LED technology / our future.

And our future is near !
from 1 year ago:

February 13, 2013
Cree Sets New R&D Performance Record with 276 Lumen-Per-Watt Power LED


Cree Sets New R&D Performance Record with 276 Lumen-Per-Watt Power LED
Extends Leadership with Highest-Efficacy Power LED
DURHAM, NC -- Cree, Inc. (Nasdaq: CREE) delivers another industry first with a barrier-breaking 276 lumen-per-watt white R&D power LED. This significant milestone exceeds Cree’s previous R&D industry record of 254 lumens per watt and demonstrates Cree’s continued commitment to innovate and accelerate the adoption of LED lighting.

Cree’s innovative SC³ Technology™ Platform, available today in Cree XLamp® LEDs, enables this record-breaking R&D result. The SC³ Technology Platform features advancements in LED chip architecture and phosphor and boasts a new package design to deliver the most advanced LED components in the industry.

Cree reports that the LED efficacy was measured at 276 lumens per watt, at a correlated color temperature of 4401 K and 350 mA.

“The core of the Cree R&D culture is a relentless focus on innovation that ultimately drives LED adoption,” said John Edmond, Cree co-founder and director of advanced optoelectronics. “The innovation from our labs is the foundation for our lighting-class XLamp LEDs. Higher-performance LEDs can enable new and better LED-based applications and drive down the solution cost of LED designs.”

more:
Cree News: Cree Sets New R&D Performance Record with 276 Lumen-Per-Watt Power LED
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Old 01-21-14, 02:11 PM   #28
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It dawned on me I have two flashlights with XLM led bulbs in them - 100Lm per watt..
1 flashlight has 1 XLM t6 bulb in it the other full size flashlight has 3 XLM t6 bulbs.
1st small flashlight uses 1 18650 li -ion battery the larger one uses 3 18650 batteries.

The bulbs run on 3A max and put out a true 100lm per watt.
the bulbs rating is 10w = 1000lm
Both flashlights are ridiculously bright, I kid not i have never encounter such a bright flashlight as my 3x XLM t6 bulbs and the other little 1 bulb flashlight is way brighter then normal flashlights, I estimate it is 5 to 10x brighter then a AA Mag light when directly compared.

XLamp XM-L
High Lumen Output, High Efficacy

XLamp XM-L LEDs offer the unique combination of very high efficacy at very high drive currents, delivering 1000 lumens with 100 lumens-per-watt efficacy at 3 A in a compact, 5-mm x 5-mm footprint. With its breakthrough light output and efficacy, the XM-L LED is designed for very-high-lumen applications such as high-bay, indoor commercial or roadway lighting. The XM-L LED can lower total system cost by reducing the number of LEDs and optics in the system.


link:

Cree Component XLamp XM-L LEDs

Last edited by ecomodded; 01-21-14 at 02:32 PM.. Reason: bad link
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Old 01-22-14, 09:14 AM   #29
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All this "energy" I'm saving has had very little effect on my monthly bill. My utility company has added a distribution charge to my usage on my bill, which is almost the same amount (or more) as my usage. Apparently it costs $67 to deliver $65 worth of service (1039kWh).
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Old 01-22-14, 09:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minimac View Post
All this "energy" I'm saving has had very little effect on my monthly bill. My utility company has added a distribution charge to my usage on my bill, which is almost the same amount (or more) as my usage. Apparently it costs $67 to deliver $65 worth of service (1039kWh).
I think they do this to keep people from installing solar.

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