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Old 05-20-12, 09:35 AM   #481
Xringer
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I can only guess how much energy surged into that box.
If that's what's happening every time, I don't think there is anything that can protect the front end breakers.

Perhaps the power company can add more protection in the area where they are getting the most strikes.?.

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Old 06-05-12, 11:32 PM   #482
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Xringer,

Got a dumb question.

What's the deference between a 9000 btu indoor unit and a 12,000 btu indoor unit? The obvious 3,000 btu. Not what I'm asking, how does the larger unit deliver the extra 3,000 btu?
1) higher speed fan, same evac
2) larger evac, but use the same fan

What's the method of delivering the extra 3,000 btu?

The indoor units I'm quessing should be located on either side of wall, back to back, in blue. I'm trying to figure if I should get a 1 1/2 ton or a 2 ton mini split, below. With the larger one, it might run less, the recovery time might be shorter.

Do you have to worry about short cycle with a mini split?

Vern

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Old 06-05-12, 11:49 PM   #483
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In the Sanyos of old, (like mine). You could get a 120vac 9,000 BTUh, but a 12,000 BTUh would likely be a 240ac system.

Normally, when you go to more BTUh output, you consume more power.
That's going to mean a larger capacity compressor, more coils, more R410A and maybe larger fan motors (and blades) too.

If someone was selling two identical units, but one had a lower BTUh spec,
I would suspect the difference would only be in the control firmware.

Prime Computer Co. used to sell a 40 MB CDC disk drive. If the customer wanted
to buy the 80 MB upgrade, the tech would remove the controller board,
take it to lunch with him, and cut a jumper before returning from lunch.
That jumper cut enabled the HDD heads to seek out over the whole disc pack.
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Old 06-06-12, 09:14 AM   #484
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Thank's Xringer,

Funny, but I'm sure true.

With a shop, most of us don't live there. My thought, leave the mini split on all the time or hit the breaker, when done for the day. I'm not in the shop daily and may skip a week or two at a time. Recovery time is important, I don't want to wait for an hour, sweating. In Arizona sweating is most common. With the house central air I just set it twice a year, set it and for get it.

Xringer, the mini split install is closing in soon. Retired things are measured in months.

mini split I'm looking at Which is the best one? Kind of like the Mr slim.

The disconnect box may be installed in two weeks. You can see my sub is on the other side of wall in shop. I do use 12 oz Co2 paint bottles for my welder, when I need to be supper portable using 110v. I keep a fill spare, would that work to pressure check the evac and service lines? The pressure gage on the welder reads 900 psi, so I can get to 400 psi easy. Sorry, I do understand how a heat pump works, but don't understand where to connect things.

I think, the 1/4" line is the return 410a vapor coming back from evac. the 1/2" or 3/8" line is the liquid line going to evac. The Co2 maybe connected to the 1/2" and cap the 1/4" line to pressure check first system. I have not found anyone that will talk to me about this. They only want to install the whole thing, fat chance. Not two worried if I have to do the process a couple times. I do know I'll be doing it twice with a split system. I know I'll need a pressure regulator and a hand full of fittings. I'm not cutting the copper lines. Is the real size for the flare tool 37 or 45 degrees? Then I'll need to figure out the manifold gages for vacuum and the in line digital micron gage.

I just bought a hydraulic tube bender, because I can't bend 1" EMT and wont pay for an electrician to charge me an arm an a leg for the shop conduit and outlets. I do everything myself.

Here I'm building my own house Been living here sense 1976.
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Last edited by Vern2; 06-06-12 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 06-06-12, 12:12 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
If someone was selling two identical units, but one had a lower BTUh spec, I would suspect the difference would only be in the control firmware.
I don't think your CDC anecdote holds true for HVAC units.

When they design these things, they're designing with the idea in mind that they will be competing in an international market, and that a production run will go into the millions, and that if they expect to remain competitive, shipping costs over many millions of combined miles must be minimized. The field is too competitive and the profit margins are too slim, and there are too many engineers available to solve problems.

The idea that some company would make a line of identical units and change the capacity only by changing jumpers on a circuit board simply would not happen, except perhaps in the USA.

Now, they might make identical controller circuit boards that would apply to a line of HVAC products, that were jumper selectable, but they would not apply the same thinking with the whole unit... too many pounds to survive in a competitive world.

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Old 06-06-12, 03:19 PM   #486
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I would get one of the 21 SEER units, but I check the specs for low temp operation, since I live in a cold climate.
You, on the other hand need to make sure cooling mode is going to be suitable for your needs.
The LG specs that I read last summer (work related) looked really good, you should try to find some reviews on the web.

I would not use CO2 for pressure testing. CO2 is highly reactive to temperature.
All CO2 tanks have safety valves in case of over pressure in high temperature.
If you did try to use CO2, any slight temperature change will show a large pressure change..

If there was a leak, while the system was at a (long term) stable temperature,
liquid CO2 would turn into gas, as it leaked out, and maintain the pressure reading.
And you might never see the it was leaking..

The cheap way to pressure test is done right after doing the vacuum test.
It's done by releasing a small shot of R410A into the line set.
Get the install manual and read it, research it, until you know the process.
~~


The mini-split can provide instant cool air. BUT, if your garage is 90F, it's not going to be instantly cooled.

You could try leaving the mini-split set to 86F (if it goes that high),
then when you come in to work, crank it down to to 78...

During the summer around here, we leave a Sanyo running at 75 to 80F
and come home to a warm house, instead of a hot house..
It's easier to cool down from 75, then try to cool down a 90 degree house.

Kinda funny, today we are using the heat again..
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Old 06-10-12, 11:55 PM   #487
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TED

I had know experience building a house and built mine. My Build

Vern
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Old 07-18-12, 01:01 PM   #488
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Default Price hike on new units..

Panasonic took over the Sanyo ASHP line.. And the prices seem higher..

Panasonic KE24NKU 24,200 BTU Single Zone Wall-Mount Ductless Split System with 29,000 BTU Heat Pump, R-410A Refrigerant, Low Ambient and Wireless Remote Control (CSKE24NKU Indoor / CUKE24NKU Outdoor)
$2,185.00


Sanyo Heat Pumps
24KHS72 = KHS2472 + CH2472 for $1586.26

Edit: BHS also has some line sets too. http://bostonheatingsupply.com/linesets.aspx


Boston Heating Supply seems to be have a pretty good deal on older Sanyo systems.

Your shipping cost will depend on where you live (in most cases).

My new Indoor unit (CH2472) came from Boston Heating Supply.
Quick shipping at a pretty reasonable cost.
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Last edited by Xringer; 07-18-12 at 01:34 PM.. Reason: Line sets
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Old 07-18-12, 07:53 PM   #489
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Xringer,

What size fuses did you use in your disconnects on your Sanyo? Do you expect the fuse to add any protection?
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Old 07-18-12, 08:05 PM   #490
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You don't need to use a fused disconnect box. At least not in MA. But you can use any size which is equal to or greater than the amperage of the breaker..... At least in MA. I have heard tell of some AC manufacturers who spec fused boxes. I have yet to hear from anyone in person who has installed such a system.

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