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Old 09-28-17, 03:09 AM   #51
ecomodded
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I agree , that fact took awhile to sink in but jeffmay finally got threw to me

Was hoping to use it in the coldest months of the year but I had it wrong !

Like you wrote Its the inlet vs outlet temps that ultimately determine the units net gain / loss.
Its scheduled to be here on Friday / tomorrow by the end of the day so soon I'll have its outlet temp to compare.
These portables are widely know to be crappy performing AC's, from consumer reports to everyone in between. ( beside anecdotal evidence from people who find they worked for them )
I have not found anything about its heating performance its likely the same as its cooling maybe its slightly better who knows until you try.
If it works as in heats up the house it could be same as the wattage it consumes and I would never know.

As it is I can run a ceramic heater downstairs on 500w and it heats the upstairs on most days. The unit runs on 1200w so it might look good to me but have no real savings.
I can though compare the past 10 years of hydro data to its energy consumption. if it changes little that means there no net gain for me.

The inlet / outlet temps will show me whats possible with the unit anyways and whats not.

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Old 09-28-17, 12:48 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEnd View Post
The Net gain comes from the infiltrated air temps vs. The discharge air temps.

Basically the Unit brings in outdoor air at say 72F and discharges it at 32F, so basically there are 40F worth of BTUs in that infiltrated air. If we want the indoor air to be 76F then 10% of those BTUs are used to heat up the infiltrated air and the rest of the BTUs are used to heat up the rest of the house.

COP is the efficiency of the Unit itself not a measure of efficiency of the entire house. Basically the unit can cause a net loss of heat to the house (this happens when the recoverable BTUs are greater than the BTUs needed to warm the infiltrated air up to warm temperature) and the unit will still operate at its COP.

The highlighted paragraph is what I was thinking from the start (I think as Ive been learning along the way)

The math works and explains running the unit indoors will show gains. Reliant on the outlet temps vs outdoor temps of course.

Thanks DEnd for the good clarification
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Old 09-29-17, 11:58 AM   #53
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The ac unit was just delivered I'll leave it sit for an hour and run a outdoor vs outlet temp test using the 6 to 4 reducer and post its gains in mild weather , its currently 15*c / 59*f @ 10 am with indoor the electric heat set at 19c / 66*f
Side note may well leave it on the straight through tapered 6 to 4 reducer.
All things considered it may cancel out differences in the infiltrated air vs Btu heat gain and can't be much worse then the 6 inch with two 45* bends most people set them up with ?

Not really sure how that would come into play as far as net gain.

Update its plugged in blowing in free space while I test its watt draw and air flow , it blows more air out the back then I would like using my hand as a gauge.

I will test the outlet airflow and the differences between now.

Watt draw was 610w at start up 10 minutes later settled between 1057w to 1060w with a starting room temp of 19*c / 66.4* that moves it from a 2.7 to a 3 COP
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Old 09-29-17, 03:07 PM   #54
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Im trying this again
Wind speed out back of unit = 20 mph
wind speed out the 6 to 4 inch reducer = 25 miles an hour

Converted to CFM

6 inch duct = 345 cfm
4 inch duct = 191 cfm = 45% reduction

Looks like the internet fooled me , its probably 241 cfm out the duct work not front circulation fan.
I will test with ducts in place and take wind speed measurements from the outside vent when its plumbed.

This math is looking weird and I used this online calculator here > Air Flow Conversion Calculator - ft/meter, m/s, miles/hr, ft3/min, m3/hr, L/s

I will make a youtube Video and try to educate people about this thing once I have it tested , and Im wondering how /why would people as in the whole internet got the output flow WRONG ( me too)

Mind you when people said it made a lot of negative pressure they were Right it will a beastly amount.

It will reduce flow further by plumbing to the 4 inch back draft vent / dryer vent so it *may* fly yet.

I'll test the plumbed ducts outlet flow and call it a close estimate as the numbers pretty much match so far with its 241 cfm rating.

I feel a little burn off those numbers but will try this little beast anyways no sense quitting now !
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Old 09-29-17, 11:07 PM   #55
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Its plumbed and running , the outside exhaust outlet front edge reading was 21 to 25 mph the middle around 17 gives an average around 20 mph the same as the 6 to 4 adapter average 154 CFM (or there about)

The iPhone makes for a tricky post !



0.3*c outlet temp 16*c / 61*f inlet (outdoors)

plumbed the hose and taped it tight



Exhaust is wrapped with a old mummy bag then plumbed it to drain condensate in a water cooler bottle.



Weighs 85 lbs

Set to blow hot air up toward the doorway

Tomorrow will make the cardboard vent and block the middle of the doorway to get flow separation.Have not noticed a back draft yet , there is no door hung

Temp downstairs was 29*c or 84* upstairs 24*c 75*f
Had it set a 87* to test. Upstairs can just hear it turn on/off , down in the room its a pretty loud low frequency sound with a added compressor note.

Inlet ? outlet tests done at about 6 pm

61* / 16*c outdoors infiltrating air
32.5*f / 0.3*c house exhaust taken from the exhaust vent outside the house.

Hot air vent was 145* to 140*f or 63* to 61.5*c

Tonight's low prediction 8*c / 46.5*f the weeks average is 5.5*c

Do single phase compressors make their highest COP at real warm temps too ? Read they made cop 5 from about 10*c to 12c not sure if it includes higher temps as the chart was unclear.

I read 3 phase make theirs highest cop up at 35*f ? due to low compressor power draw. Thats what some pdf file says anyways , The pdf link https://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrT...naWE__qpgicvk-
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Old 09-30-17, 02:55 PM   #56
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I ran it for a for a few hours this morning it heated the downstairs room to 29*c but did not change the upstairs room temperature its Vacuum was too strong.

The only way it stands a chance of working is if the hot air is vented upstairs.

There is a 15 x8 or something rectangular vent on the rooms ceiling used for when the pellet stove was there. that was vented to the kitchen floor. I patched it and covered it with wood flooring. Don't think this thing worth cutting a vent back in it.

Short of throwing in the towel it could be hacked into a mini split.

I'll take the cover it off and see what could to be done later tonight

Or maybe just return it

Here is inside a filthy ac



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Old 10-01-17, 02:09 PM   #57
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I double checked using a box fan in the top of the doorway and even with it going the upper floor does not heat after a few hours while the basement room broils at 39*c

Moved the unit outside to run tests

Test conditions 1 hour run time

5 readings taken in 10 minute intervals

Outside temp started at 8*c at test end was 10*c

Cold air vent -3*c on the fan wheel down to -10* from the center of the vent screen
Hot air vent 40*c to 45*c depending on where in the vent the reading is taken

Did not notice a defrost cycle

The show is not over yet its mod time

As the saying goes "If at first you don't succeed try try again"

Round 2

Dual 6 inch ducts



Sealed two layers of cardboard to the vent and resealed it with a 3rd layer over top





It was easy enough to do used the filter cover for a template trimmed the cardboard with scissors cut 5 3/4" holes with a knife and taped it tight with tuck tape.
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Old 10-08-17, 03:22 PM   #58
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Ran a overnight test using the auto temp control it maintained a house temp of 19c consuming a average of 470 watts per hour or just less then half its 1050w draw.
a 45% duty cycle , outside temp 6 to 7c / 44f

So I will be cutting the vent back in the kitchen floor to vent warm air with a Air king 200cfm 1.4 sone fan mounted in the downstairs rooms ceiling.
Right now a box fanis in the downstairs doorway to cycle air in and out , it works.

Its pushing out the heat with vent temps high is 125 to 130F with a low of 115*F at 40 to 44f.
Before the next few days are up will make a air filter box with vents to secure the hose ends.
Thinking will use a can or two of spray foam to insulate the vent with.
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Old 10-08-17, 10:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ecomodded View Post
Ran a overnight test using the auto temp control it maintained a house temp of 19c consuming a average of 470 watts per hour or just less then half its 1050w draw.
a 45% duty cycle , outside temp 6 to 7c / 44f

So I will be cutting the vent back in the kitchen floor to vent warm air with a Air king 200cfm 1.4 sone fan mounted in the downstairs rooms ceiling.
Right now a box fanis in the downstairs doorway to cycle air in and out , it works.

Its pushing out the heat with vent temps high is 125 to 130F with a low of 115*F at 40 to 44f.
Before the next few days are up will make a air filter box with vents to secure the hose ends.
Thinking will use a can or two of spray foam to insulate the vent with.
I have some post on here somewhere detailing about a the amount of energy that resistance space heaters used vs my mini split was using . The useage of the mini split turned out was under the power useage that the space heater was using . But produced a lot more heat for me. 1/2 my house vs only 1 room.

Looks like i read in a post that you were using a space heater somewhere. May be cheaper to l let that unit your bought topickup that extra heating for this heating season. Until you can put it on the market. I looked and found my old post when i bought my cheapy mini split . (still chugging along)

http://ecorenovator.org/forum/geothe...ini-split.html

Last edited by nokiasixteth; 10-08-17 at 10:21 PM.. Reason: more info
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Old 10-09-17, 10:31 AM   #60
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Ok, so the thing is blowing out Sub-Zero exhaust pipe air at room temperature supply air? Awesome! Good to know the rig puts out nice warm air. More useful heat and less power draw than a hair dryer heater is good news.

What I ended up doing with mine to keep the exhaust pipe air colder than outdoor temperature was to choke the evaporator supply air. I just put a filtrete air filter over the inlet grille. That little bit of restriction gave me about 5 degF outlet air. Like I said before, by the time it got that cold outside, the gas blast furnace was running anyway to keep the house warm.

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