TED $20 Ebay - Page 5

Xringer · 01-07-14, 12:28 PM

Yeah, I've already seen a problem. The MTUs must have some drift in their clocks.
(I can see their RTC are off)

The updating just stopped on both units. I looked at the transmit lights,
and they were synced up.
(Both transmitting at the same time, jamming each other).

I disconnected the power into the new one and restarted it out of sync.
Now both are working again..

I may have to figure a hack, if these things keep getting into sync,
and don't drift out of sync in a few minutes..

pinballlooking · 01-07-14, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xringer

Yeah, I've already seen a problem. The MTUs must have some drift in their clocks.
(I can see their RTC are off)

The updating just stopped on both units. I looked at the transmit lights,
and they were synced up.
(Both transmitting at the same time, jamming each other).

I disconnected the power into the new one and restarted it out of sync.
Now both are working again..

I may have to figure a hack, if these things keep getting into sync,
and don't drift out of sync in a few minutes..

Do you have the power to each MTU on a different leg of the 240? They talk on that leg so they won’t jam each other if they both are on different legs.

Xringer · 01-07-14, 01:04 PM

I have so many LEDs (with a few CFLs), a TED won't run very well on any circuit.
Too much noise on the lines. So, I used a filter to make one 'Clean' outlet, (120V)
and wired the MTU power to that outlet.
The 'Hot' line that powers the MTU, is also the signal output line for the MTU.

That's the only way I could get my TED to work.. But now that I have two TEDs,
I'm trying to run them both off that single clean power source, and driving their signals onto the same line..

pinballlooking · 01-07-14, 01:47 PM

Sounds like you need another filter for the power wire for the second TED MTU so they can talk on their own hot wire. This is also what TED support suggested that would work.

Xringer · 01-07-14, 02:11 PM

I'm trying a Firmware solution. Not sure but this might work.

Page 11 of the manual has some info on setting up for Two MTUs..
(For TED model 1002, not for these 1001 models).

When it asks, "How Many House Codes", I selected two.
I left the second house code as 000. (I set both units like this).

I went down and turned off the Den MTU.
The LR MTU xmit LED is flashing once per second. (60 transmissions per minute).

When I turned on the DEN MTU, and it booted up, a nice thing happened.
The MTU xmit LEDs slowed down to 40 per min.
And, they are perfectly out-of sync! One is on when the other is off.
The are switching perfectly now, like a see-saw or flip-flop..

The line is seeing 80 transmissions per min, 40 going to each RDU..

Just having one of the TEDs set for 2 MTUs seems to get the 40 per min
sync mode started.
These things seem to be talking to each other..

I hope this just isn't a fluke and they stay locked in flip-flop mode..

pinballlooking · 01-07-14, 02:25 PM

Cool. I asked them about using a TED 5000-G and the Ted 1001 so it could be different.

Xringer · 01-07-14, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballlooking

Cool. I asked them about using a TED 5000-G and the Ted 1001 so it could be different.

Dang! They synced up again!

I figured selecting dual MTUs would turn on a Listen-Before-Transmit protocol.
But maybe having them both in the same mode doesn't last..
If one clock drifts, they might both listen and hear nothing,
then both transmit at the same time..

Maybe just telling one TED there is 'another', will set up a master-slave
condition and one TED will sync itself to the other..?.

Trying it out now..

Edit: 1/8/14
The TEDs still locked up (both transmitting at the same time), with the old TED set for two MTUs.
So, I had one more thing to try. I set the old TED back to one MTU, and set the new TED for dual MTUs.
It's been running perfectly since yesterday. We have not seen one lock-up.

One odd thing was noticed on the MTU flip-flop cycle. It only happened for a short while,
then went back to normal. The old MTU xmit LED was flashing twice (quickly),
before staying off, while the new MTU flashed once. (Then the 2-1 cycle would repeat).
It worked fine. Just looked odd. Now it's the plain old flip-flop cycle..

Xringer · 01-10-14, 05:38 PM

I have an RF remote control wired up to the new MTU, so I can shut off & on to restart it.
But, I've been watching for a sync-up all day long and not seen one.
If it does occur, it might drift back into flip-flop mode by itself..

Calibration:
I figured out how to calibrate the new MTU/probes! I used the old TED setup as my standard.
(The old TED was calibrated using NStar electric meter).

I simply clipped the current probes from both units, on the same lines!
The watt readings should have been the same, but were not.
The Den TED was displaying much higher wattage..

So, I accessed the Technology menu of the new TED and adjusted
the offset so the power of both displays matched..
Ran the power up and down and saw perfect tracking between displays..

where2 · 01-10-14, 08:21 PM

What are you using for a line filter? I looked around my usual go-to electronics surplus place, but all their ferrite clams started their filtering in the 1Mhz range and went up from there.

It probably doesn't help my situation that I have a Square-D QO surge arrestor in the same panel I'm trying to measure. With my MTU feeding down a wire with only one device on the circuit (microwave), I get inconsistent communications at the readout. Doesn't matter whether the microwave is actually plugged in. If I follow your design and add an outlet or two right at the panel to plug my two MTU's into, I'd like to filter their feeds heading toward the panel.

Xringer · 01-10-14, 11:22 PM

The filter didn't work for me the first time I attempted to use it..
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/applia...ot-prints.html

XPF 20A Wired-In Noise Filter

XPF 20A Wired in Noise Filter x10 Pro | eBay

I think the filter is a pair, or maybe 3 pi network filters..

I'm not using the ground wire, since the caps sucked too much power.
Just using the series inductors. Large iron or ferrite rods wrapped with
medium gauge wire. 20A capable.
(Using the ground didn't increase the signal counts at all).

You could try making your own iron core inductor, just wind 2 or 3 feet
of wire around an iron or plain steel rod.

I made one a while back, with a 3/4" iron rod core. (for another experiment), it was easy.

Put the inductor in series with the Hot (black) wire going to the new outlet.
And make sure to attach the black wire from the MTU, on the outlet side of
the inductor.
It will block the signals from feeding back into the main breakerbox.
And keep noise and the capacitance of your surge arrestor off the signal path.

If you need a diagram, let me know.. I can draw one an snap a pic.. after I sleep...

01-07-14, 12:28 PM	#41
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Yeah, I've already seen a problem. The MTUs must have some drift in their clocks. (I can see their RTC are off) The updating just stopped on both units. I looked at the transmit lights, and they were synced up. (Both transmitting at the same time, jamming each other). I disconnected the power into the new one and restarted it out of sync. Now both are working again.. I may have to figure a hack, if these things keep getting into sync, and don't drift out of sync in a few minutes.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-07-14, 01:04 PM	#43
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	I have so many LEDs (with a few CFLs), a TED won't run very well on any circuit. Too much noise on the lines. So, I used a filter to make one 'Clean' outlet, (120V) and wired the MTU power to that outlet. The 'Hot' line that powers the MTU, is also the signal output line for the MTU. That's the only way I could get my TED to work.. But now that I have two TEDs, I'm trying to run them both off that single clean power source, and driving their signals onto the same line.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-07-14, 02:11 PM	#45
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	Trying a Hack now.. I'm trying a Firmware solution. Not sure but this might work. Page 11 of the manual has some info on setting up for Two MTUs.. (For TED model 1002, not for these 1001 models). When it asks, "How Many House Codes", I selected two. I left the second house code as 000. (I set both units like this). I went down and turned off the Den MTU. The LR MTU xmit LED is flashing once per second. (60 transmissions per minute). When I turned on the DEN MTU, and it booted up, a nice thing happened. The MTU xmit LEDs slowed down to 40 per min. And, they are perfectly out-of sync! One is on when the other is off. The are switching perfectly now, like a see-saw or flip-flop.. The line is seeing 80 transmissions per min, 40 going to each RDU.. Just having one of the TEDs set for 2 MTUs seems to get the 40 per min sync mode started. These things seem to be talking to each other.. I hope this just isn't a fluke and they stay locked in flip-flop mode.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-10-14, 05:38 PM	#48
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	TED Calibration I have an RF remote control wired up to the new MTU, so I can shut off & on to restart it. But, I've been watching for a sync-up all day long and not seen one. If it does occur, it might drift back into flip-flop mode by itself.. Calibration: I figured out how to calibrate the new MTU/probes! I used the old TED setup as my standard. (The old TED was calibrated using NStar electric meter). I simply clipped the current probes from both units, on the same lines! The watt readings should have been the same, but were not. The Den TED was displaying much higher wattage.. So, I accessed the Technology menu of the new TED and adjusted the offset so the power of both displays matched.. Ran the power up and down and saw perfect tracking between displays.. __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-10-14, 11:22 PM	#50
Xringer Lex Parsimoniae Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Woburn, MA Posts: 4,918 Thanks: 114 Thanked 250 Times in 230 Posts	The filter didn't work for me the first time I attempted to use it.. http://ecorenovator.org/forum/applia...ot-prints.html XPF 20A Wired-In Noise Filter XPF 20A Wired in Noise Filter x10 Pro \| eBay I think the filter is a pair, or maybe 3 pi network filters.. I'm not using the ground wire, since the caps sucked too much power. Just using the series inductors. Large iron or ferrite rods wrapped with medium gauge wire. 20A capable. (Using the ground didn't increase the signal counts at all). You could try making your own iron core inductor, just wind 2 or 3 feet of wire around an iron or plain steel rod. I made one a while back, with a 3/4" iron rod core. (for another experiment), it was easy. Put the inductor in series with the Hot (black) wire going to the new outlet. And make sure to attach the black wire from the MTU, on the outlet side of the inductor. It will block the signals from feeding back into the main breakerbox. And keep noise and the capacitance of your surge arrestor off the signal path. If you need a diagram, let me know.. I can draw one an snap a pic.. after I sleep... Attached Thumbnails __________________ My hobby is installing & trying to repair mini-splits EPA 608 Type 1 Technician Certification ~ 5 lbs or less..

01-07-14, 01:47 PM	#44
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Sounds like you need another filter for the power wire for the second TED MTU so they can talk on their own hot wire. This is also what TED support suggested that would work.

01-07-14, 02:25 PM	#46
pinballlooking Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: SC Posts: 2,923 Thanks: 172 Thanked 564 Times in 463 Posts	Cool. I asked them about using a TED 5000-G and the Ted 1001 so it could be different.

01-10-14, 08:21 PM	#49
where2 DIY Geek Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 401 Thanks: 74 Thanked 83 Times in 73 Posts	What are you using for a line filter? I looked around my usual go-to electronics surplus place, but all their ferrite clams started their filtering in the 1Mhz range and went up from there. It probably doesn't help my situation that I have a Square-D QO surge arrestor in the same panel I'm trying to measure. With my MTU feeding down a wire with only one device on the circuit (microwave), I get inconsistent communications at the readout. Doesn't matter whether the microwave is actually plugged in. If I follow your design and add an outlet or two right at the panel to plug my two MTU's into, I'd like to filter their feeds heading toward the panel.