ice storm, generators and lessons learned

[jeff5may]

For what is installed in the well bore, there is no magic product to offer a real long-term solution. Yes, there are soft starters and variable speed drive modules made that work with single phase motors. But the real culprit here is the single phase motor. There are two main types of well pumps: two wire and three wire (plus ground). The three wire motors are like an a/c compressor; the three wires are start winding, run winding and common. They are wired to a remote control box, and are somewhat more versatile. The two-wire motors have the start circuit built into the hermetically sealed motor unit. Figuring out what type of motor is in the well will pretty much spell out the options available.

Disregarding all of this previous rambling, single phase motors in general do not lend themselves to connecting strange signals to them. Well pumps in this flavor are designed to be bang-bang in nature. Bang, its on or bang, its off. Feeding a strange voltage, frequency or combination of the two to the motor will induce strange side effects, the two most common being a stall or a burnout.

I believe Steve is thinking in the right direction here: some short-term booster device should exist to provide the extra starting current to the motor for just a few seconds when the pump powers up. This booster should not have to be an oversized gen set.

[stevehull]

Pinball,

A 10 kW tractor mounted PTO (power take off) generator for $895 is a bargain even if you must create a mounting frame. Just be aware that there is a lot of starting torque and the frame needs to be husky.

Your 36 HP diesel will easily spin this. I have a friend with an old Ford 8N (gasoline) and he constantly fills it when running his PTO generator. I far prefer diesel due to the energy density, cost and (to a degree) time stability. With time, diesel can (and does) go bad, but I run through several 55 gallon drums a year so it stays relatively fresh.

Reread my section on where to store the diesel fuel. It got REALLY old carrying up 5 gallon "Jerry" cans of diesel fuel for refilling the tractor fuel tank. An above head height storage area would be great so you have gravity feed into the fuel tank. But this needs to be close by where you connect up the generator into your home electrical system.

With some heavy start up loads, you may see a bit of a momentary voltage drop with your 36 HP diesel tractor - I did with mine. I did not see this with the 80 HP big tractor, but the larger tractor was just so inefficient in terms of fuel used per hour. The big tractor had a LOT of inertia.

Lastly, turn off your power and run your operation on the tractor and generator when you HAVE power and it is a nice sunny day. I had done this mentally, but did not consider the time/effort/frustration of moving the fuel around and lifting them over my shoulder to fill the tractor tank.

As always a real life test is the best one.

Steve

[WyrTwister]

When I was a little kid , Dad's tractor was propane / butane . We had a tank that was probably at least 250 gallons . That tank served the house , also .

So , Dad had to never let the tractor run dry , because he had to drive it close enough to the big tank for the fill hose to reach . Dad said fuel was $.06 - $.08 a gallon at that time .

By the way , no worries about the fuel going old / stale .

Grandfather had a gasoline tractor & an elevated tank . Gravity flow to transfer gasoline to the tractor . You might look for that type of elevated tank to store diesel for your tractor ?

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/stor...ep?pID=B18-843

https://www.johnstonesupply.com/stor...relevance-desc

These seem to be designed to operate with start and or run capacitors . One would have to consult with the manufacturer to determine if they would work on a single phase submersible pump .

God bless
Wyr

[WyrTwister]

More info

http://www.hypereng.com/literature/IG5601EH.pdf

Hyper Engineering | Single Phase

God bless
Wyr

[charlesfl]

Have you looked at the Grundfos SQ series soft start constant pressure
water well pump?

charlesfl

[stevehull]

Charles,

Clients have put in variable speed, constant pressure deep well submersible pumps - and have had a LOT of problems. Especially with lightening. We have a lot of that here in Oklahoma. Despite putting in lots of common point ground rods, they still get fried by stray currents.

My situation is a ~ 200 deep cased well with water flow of 35-45 GPM constant at about 40-60 feet down (with pump on).

The existing pumps are all 2 wire, 240 V types that draw about 10 amps (steady state) when on. I have two bladder tanks in parallel to minimize short cycling and to insure that if one tank fails (bladder rupture) then the other will prevent very short cycling (that kills water pumps).

The problem I have is that the start up current can be 20+ amps, but for a very brief time. the steady state level of 2.4 kW (10 amps x 240 V) is not hard to supply, but a high starting current, if limited by the generator, will be exceptionally bad for the pump.

Steve