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Old 09-19-14, 04:42 AM   #11
Zwerius
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It seems to me that there would be a gradient of insulation improvement as vacuum levels became greater.
Ofcourse you are right. It's not a step function. I just mentioned the value below which the Lambda isn't reducing anymore.

But OK. Suppose you would be able to achieve a high vacuum and suppose you could get the right insulation material (with nanopores). You still want the VIP you create to perform well. Not only now, but also in 10, 20, 30 (or more?) years. So you need to add the getters inside, to catch the Nitrogen or Oxygen atoms that are leaking in through the seams.

My guess was, that it would be difficult to get the right materials.
But if you could it might be a great way to reduce costs of the VIP's.

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Old 09-19-14, 09:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Zwerius View Post
...Not only now, but also in 10, 20, 30 (or more?) years...
Speaking of VIP useful lifetime, what information have you come across regarding the lifetime? I think that this is probably the most asked question about vacuum insulation.

-AC
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Old 09-20-14, 02:20 AM   #13
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Speaking of VIP useful lifetime, what information have you come across regarding the lifetime?
Generally, in the VIP world, a lifetime of 30-50 years is considered as normal.
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Old 09-20-14, 12:48 PM   #14
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Default Another DIY Vacuum Bagging Resource...

I came across another vacuum bagging information resourced, this time the vacuum bagging process is being used to vacuum bag model airplane wings made of styrofoam.


The intent here is not to reduce energy flow, but there may be useful insights to be gained about the vacuum bagging process.

http://www.acpsales.com/upload/Vacuu...tions_2013.pdf

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-AC
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Old 09-22-14, 12:32 PM   #15
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Default Vacuum Panel Insulation Prices...

I've done some more hunting about for pre-made VIP modules.

I have seen mention of VIPs going for $5 to $10 per square foot... (that I'd like to find!).

However, I have found a company that appears to specialize in refrigeration parts & supplies, presumably for custom refrigerators... maybe.

But they do have a VIP pricing page and the prices are not at all as discouraging as has been presumed.

For instance, VIP sized at 23.75"x23.75"x1" for $60.

and VIP Panel 32.75" x 24" x 1" for $40 to $70 depending on quantity.

And, they will make custom sizes.

HERE'S_THE_PRICING_PAGE

Best,

-AC
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Old 09-23-14, 02:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by AC_Hacker View Post
I've done some more hunting about for pre-made VIP modules.

I have seen mention of VIPs going for $5 to $10 per square foot... (that I'd like to find!).

However, I have found a company that appears to specialize in refrigeration parts & supplies, presumably for custom refrigerators... maybe.

But they do have a VIP pricing page and the prices are not at all as discouraging as has been presumed.

For instance, VIP sized at 23.75"x23.75"x1" for $60.

and VIP Panel 32.75" x 24" x 1" for $40 to $70 depending on quantity.

And, they will make custom sizes.

HERE'S_THE_PRICING_PAGE

Best,

-AC

I paid 97,-/m2 including sales tax (in the Netherlands)
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Old 09-23-14, 11:23 AM   #17
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Default Vacuum Panel Insulation Cost...

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Originally Posted by Zwerius View Post
I paid 97,-/m2 including sales tax (in the Netherlands)
OK, that works out to $11.62/sq.ft.

I just calculated the $/sq. ft. for one of RPARTS 2ft x 2ft panels, and that comes out to about $15/sq. ft.

Not so very far apart in price.

I would imagine that shipping from Holland would be dreadfully expensive.

-AC
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Old 09-23-14, 04:36 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by NiHaoMike View Post
That's a vacuum level of about 75 microns, which is attainable with a good HVAC vacuum pump in good condition.
That's attainable inside HVAC grade copper pipe with flared connections and relatively little volume to these vacuum panels. As noted it seems it would be near impossible to get similar results, even professional manufacturing isn't quite there yet, hence the limited avail/use.
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Old 09-23-14, 07:15 PM   #19
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I try a few time to build such a material. For me, the main problem was to find a material that did not collapse under extreme vacuum... and one that will not outgaz over time as most plastic did.

I think the best I have tried was chicken feather but I don't remember if they were "Cook or carbonized".

Regarding keeping the vacuum for 20 years or so. I did not even bother. I just run the vacuum pump every week. ( I was even thinking that was an acceptable solution for a whole house insulation since a pump cost less then 200$).

The information about Vacuum bagging of model air plane might be interesting... but this process is to glue/laminate material. They don't even need to be 100% airtight since the pump is kept running the entire gluing period. In many case, we might use tick Polyethylene sheet to perform the procedure. These are not 100% airtight.

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