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Old 12-10-11, 01:09 AM   #31
Xringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-F View Post
You're not trying to pump any air out. You are trying to create negative pressure under the slab. 5 cfm shouldn't happen. There's no way to pump air out of solid earth. It should be like sticking a vacuum to your hand or something like that.

Somehow, that doesn't sound quite right. If it were true,
then I could use a little 1/4" line for the blower exhaust output..
Since there would be no flow, 15 seconds after the fan started up..

In radon literature, the term I've seen, is "Ground Air", and people think it
actually exist under your slab, and it can be pulled right out of the
ground, along with any radon gas.

I've seen pics of a guy testing a 4" holes in a slab, using vacuum gauge and shop-vac.
Here it is!


WPB


IMHO, I think the idea is to pull air out of the slab at one point, so that
all the other little leaks in your basement floor, will be sucking air, out of the basement.
So, air will be sucked into my other sump holes(& floor cracks) and flow underground,
over to where my Radon sump was being vacuumed..


It might be easier to understand, if you looked at it like a flooded basement, with 4 sump holes,
but only one of them has a working sump pump.
That one pump is going to lower the water table under the house.
It's going to suck the water out of the other sumps.. The hard way..

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Last edited by Xringer; 12-10-11 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 12-10-11, 01:37 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
Somehow, that doesn't sound quite right. If it were true,
then I could use a little 1/4" line for the blower exhaust output..
Since there would be no flow, 15 seconds after the fan started up..

In radon literature, the term I've seen, is "Ground Air", and people think it
actually exist under your slab, and it can be pulled right out of the
ground, along with any radon gas.

I've seen pics of a guy testing a 4" holes in a slab, using vacuum gauge and shop-vac.

IMHO, I think the idea is to pull air out of the slab at one point, so that
all the other little leaks in your basement floor, will be sucking air, out of the basement.
So, air will be sucked into my other sump holes(& floor cracks) and flow underground,
over to where my Radon sump was being vacuumed..


It might be easier to understand, if you looked at it like a flooded basement, with 4 sump holes, but only one of them has a working sump pump.
That one pump is going to lower the water table under the house.
It's going to suck the water out of the other sumps.. The hard way..


?
You want to leave all but one sump hole open and suck air through the dirt beneath the slab?

OK
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Old 12-10-11, 05:02 AM   #33
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If he does have 3/4 gravel bed under the slab, he is likely to see several CFM out -- at least for part of the years.

Only if the sump pit is plastic/metal lined ( like a pal without any hole) ... beside the single hole for the french drain... could it be considered normal for the sump pit to read near 0 CFM most of the time.

Even then, if the sump pit dried off, the pit is likely to show a measurable amount of gas flowing. (not necessary air... but water vapour)
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Old 12-10-11, 09:16 AM   #34
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Default Radion now 4 pCi/L

I'm pretty sure they didn't spend much (if any) money on a gravel bed for this slab.
I've cut 3 bucket sized holes and hit dirt (& large stones) right under the removed concrete.

Anyways, I've had my Radon eruption(P2) capped with a Coroplas cover, sealed with tape, and the reading is way down. Almost in the safe range.
It's been sitting at 4 pCi/L since reset over 60 hours ago..

The detector is hanging 14" above the Coroplas cover.

It's been raining this week (1.70"), so today I want to move the
detector over to the west side sump(P3), which has about 6" of standing water, for the last 2 days.
This is an indicator on the ground water level on the west side of the house.
Not high enough to turn on the pump, but maybe it's pushing out some Radon!
I'll move the detector over there today and use the new unit (ETA next week)
on the old east side sump(P1).
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Old 12-10-11, 09:46 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S-F View Post
?
You want to leave all but one sump hole open and suck air through the dirt beneath the slab?

OK
Since those other sump holes have always had low radon levels,
I see no reason to seal them up now.
The Radon vac blower might suck a lot of air out of sump P2. Have to wait and see.

Just guessing, but I think there is a South to North underground water channel under the center of my house.
Water flows downhill from the south, only a couple of feet below my slab.
When it rains a lot, that water level comes up higher than my slab.
It tries to float the house like a boat. The pressure cracks the slab.

During our first big basement flood, there was water shooting
up (about 6") out of dozens of small cracks in the floor!
That's a good indication of a lot of water pressure (and flow) under the slab.

I think the excess water pressure might have been caused by a poor design
of the S1 sump. It's a steel 'bucket' liner cemented into the slab.
There was only a few 1/4" holes in the bottom. The size limited the flow rate. (And mud blockages).
Had there been more holes (or larger holes) in the liner,
the water pressure under the slab would have been less.. Kinda like a sinking boat.
The slab damage was there, years before we moved in.
Once I saw the problem, I drilled a bunch of holes in the steel liner.

Edit:
Fan test results:
http://www.wpb-radon.com/radon_fan_p...nce.html#HP190
This is interesting, but, I really don't know what the 'volume' will be..
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Old 12-11-11, 11:08 AM   #36
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Default 3 pCi/L @ P3

So far, all indications are, P2 is the only abnormal Radon source..



It was down to 4pCi/L at the P2 pump (with cover installed) and dropped to 3 pCi/L at P3 (open top).
So, this morning the sensor unit is over on the old P1 sump again..
Water level in P3 is now 2" (and dropping). Less than 1" in P2. P1 & P4 are dry.

I used a shop-vac to test the coroplas seal on P2 yesterday. It's not that good.
Air is flowing into the sump. It's flowing under the floor tiles.
The tiles have water drainage channels on the bottom side.
Waterproof Basement Flooring System - Place N' Go: Fine Flooring for Basements
So of course a good amount of air can get under it at the edge.
I'm going to have to put on the mask and silicon seal under the tile all around the sump hole..

Edit: 9AM 12/12/11
Still at 3 pCi/L @ P1
This is another good indication that my Radon problem is isolated to P2.
Which seems a little odd, but should make the job much easier.
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Old 12-15-11, 12:13 PM   #37
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Default New Radon detector test

The new radon sensor displayed 1.8 pCi/L after 48 hours, upstairs in my PC room.
I've moved it downstairs beside the other sensor (which is staying at 4 pCi/L),
so I can get a comparison of the units.

1.8 is good news, since my PC room is directly above the P2 radon source!


Edit: 12/16/2011 15:40

We are seeing 2 pCi/L and 1.9 pCi/L displayed since this morning.
There is a little slow up and down on the new unit. (Up and down 1 tenth).
The Pro-3 seems to up-date more often than the older Pro-2 model,
Which does a round-up function, since it has no decimal point.

This is all good news. Now I can take my time and pick out the right hardware for this job.
I'm seriously considering trying one of the low powered radon fans.
I keep wanting to say Radon Pumps for some reason.

Now, I feel we can wait until we get some nice spring weather,
before starting the outdoor part of the job.
In the meantime, I'll be keeping a close eye on the radon levels..

Edit 1/5/2012:
It's been 20 days now, and the radon levels have stayed low, mostly under 2.0 pCi/L meaning the seal is holding.
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Old 01-05-12, 04:46 PM   #38
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I've been using the new model Series 3 Radon Detector for almost a month now,
Amazon.com: Safety Siren Pro Series HS71512 3 Radon Gas Detector: Home Improvement
and, I'm very pleased with it's performance. Every time I go down the basement stairs,
I glance over and check the readings. I can see if it's gone up or down, even a tenth of a pCi/L.

The alarm isn't super loud, but it can be heard upstairs in the Kitchen/dinning area.
So, if the radon starts going up to unsafe levels, we will know about it.

I did notice one small peak after we had some rain, but the level quickly moved back to normal.
I've been watching it closely this past week, and it seems like the extra
cold weather isn't having any affect on the radon level..
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Old 01-05-12, 05:05 PM   #39
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Do you have all those sumps to deal with water?!? Why not just add drain tile?
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Old 01-05-12, 08:10 PM   #40
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Yeah, every 5 or 10 years, we get one of those 100 year floods..
And, it doesn't help having the water table a few feet under the slab.
This house is located in a bad spot for water. At the bottom of a hill to the south,
and a swamp to the north..
If I had it to do over again, I would have moved to Texas and lived on a hilltop..


Why would I want to add drain tile, when I just added 3 more sump pumps??

But, if we decide to move into another house with horrible water problems,
I'll seriously consider installing some drain tiles..

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