EcoRenovator  

Go Back   EcoRenovator > Improvements > Conservation
Advanced Search
 


Blog 60+ Home Energy Saving Tips Recent Posts Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-17, 07:55 PM   #21
creeky
Journeyman EcoRenovator
 
creeky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: a field somewhere
Posts: 304
Thanks: 64
Thanked 44 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Got my quote. 4500 plus another 300 for the controller. And tax.

__________________
Current projects
Chevy Volt battery pack conversion

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Blog that is down right now but will return
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Business where I sell solar stuff
[url]https://www.bobolinksolar.com
creeky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-17, 11:27 AM   #22
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

I think that the power required to strip heat from exiting air and insert it into incoming air is very modest, for a couple of reasons:

1. The quantity of air involved in bringing enough fresh air into a house to improve air quality is small.

2. The 'lift' that the machine is called on to do is also small. The machine will input warm air and output cold air, and the working temperature range falls easily within the R290 working range.

I think that 12K or 9K is just crazy large, unless you are talking about a substantial mansion or moderate+ manufacturing building.

It may have been mentioned before, but there are European units that admittedly operate in a modest-size, well insulated Euro house. I was not able to capture numbers, but the small compressor produced modest amounts of excess heat, which was stored in a DHW tank that was centrally located in the house.

I dug through my archives and wasn't able to ffind the reallly good one as listed above but I did find THIS_ONE



It has some small pix of how they constructed it.

-AC
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dimensio.jpg
Views:	663
Size:	119.9 KB
ID:	7626  
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-17, 11:29 AM   #23
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

I think that the power required to strip heat from exiting air and insert it into incoming air is very modest, for a couple of reasons:

1. The quantity of air involved in bringing enough fresh air into a house to improve air quality is small.

2. The 'lift' that the machine is called on to do is also small. The machine will input warm air and output cold air, and the working temperature range falls easily within the R290 working range.

I think that 12K or 9K is just crazy large, unless you are talking about a substantial mansion or moderate+ manufacturing building.

It may have been mentioned before, but there are European units that admittedly operate in a modest-size, well insulated Euro house. I was not able to capture numbers, but the small compressor produced modest amounts of excess heat, which was stored in a DHW tank that was centrally located in the house.


I dug through my archives and wasn't able to find the really good one as listed above but I did find THIS_ONE

It has some small pix of how they constructed it.

-AC
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...

Last edited by AC_Hacker; 02-24-17 at 12:27 PM..
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-17, 12:16 PM   #24
AC_Hacker
Supreme EcoRenovator
 
AC_Hacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,004
Thanks: 303
Thanked 723 Times in 534 Posts
Default

This might move you out of your comfort zone, but there is/was an initiative called LowEx that tried "Low Exergy" heating and cooling.

Here's a link to one of their reports:

https://www1.ethz.ch/gt.arch/news/Lo...atPump_Meggers


and the following diagram is in it:


Moral of the story: "The Lower the lift, the greater the COP"

Although it's not stated, to work with LowEx, Heat Exchangers need to be very efficient because the delta-T is low. So, all the many techniques that would raise the efficiency of a HX, like larger than usual area and higher than usual fluid velocities would need to be employed.

-AC
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	LowEx COP.jpg
Views:	768
Size:	49.9 KB
ID:	7627  
__________________
I'm not an HVAC technician. In fact, I'm barely even a hacker...
AC_Hacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-17, 10:56 PM   #25
RB855
Helper EcoRenovator
 
RB855's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Jacksonville, fl
Posts: 48
Thanks: 3
Thanked 14 Times in 10 Posts
Default

Curious where you go with this project. I was down this same road about 7-8 months ago. I havnt abandoned the project, I just figured out a better way to do it and havnt had the time to start over yet. The tails of that project are HERE . In my setup, the next step before I canceled the current design was to add a condenser stage before the exhaust air coil to dump some of the extra energy to the outside air, so it could take more complete use of the exhausting air. You could theoretically use your geo for this, giving you a BPHE before the outgoing air coil. The geo would take the brunt of the energy, leaving the air coil to come to nearly the same temp as the exiting air. The only real difference between our projects is mine is intentionally for summer use, yours is for winter use. Having the extra exchanger would offer you a net gain to your interior space rather than a break even of "this for that". At least in a more dramatic fashion since your making the unit more efficient at its job by over-sizing one side of the equation. As far as compressor size, I dont think you are too far off your mark. On the cooling side of things, I was using a 9k portable in a "100%" fresh air configuration with no reclaim and was quite happy with the inside conditions. Granted were talking about much higher deltas on your cold end than I on the hot end. Variable speed fans are your friend, as that is what really determines your temperature extremes, not the compressor.
RB855 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-17, 05:09 AM   #26
LarryBertsc
Lurking Renovator
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: usa
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

It uses fan power you would be using anyway to effectively move the heat. You basically only have 23ºC of energy to harvest out of the out going indoor air. A heat pump is not going to do this any more efficiently than your HRV core. What you really need to do is add energy to the incoming air after it leaves the HRV.

LarryBertsc is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Ad Management by RedTyger
Inactive Reminders By Icora Web Design