Rooftop solar panels become new enemy of U.S. firefighters

iamgeo · 09-13-13, 08:05 AM

Here is an interesting article about the dangers of solar panels. Rooftop solar panels become new enemy of U.S. firefighters
Loved by the green movement, solar panels pose a growing threat to firefighters, who may suffer electrical shocks from panels that typically cannot be turned off, said John Drengenberg, consumer safety director for Underwriters Laboratories.

ATLleaf · 09-13-13, 12:33 PM

anti solar news. who you think sponsored this article.

iamgeo · 09-13-13, 01:27 PM

I do not get an "anti-solar" vibe from the article.
I read it as information about firefighters having to deal with something that is becoming more common.

where2 · 09-13-13, 06:33 PM

How many million candlepower are you bringing with the fire brigade that they can electrify a firefighter by shining light on the panels? Panel output is related to the intensity of the illumination directly on the panel.

I did the experiment last week after the fire took place: 0.02A at 16V per panel (from a 235W monocrystalline panel) with a 50W light located an average of 7 feet from the panel.

Any panel not being equally illuminated begins to act as a resistor when wired in a series string of panels...

"It took 29 hours to put out the blaze". I guarantee some of that time was between sunset and sunrise, so the only source of light would have been from the responders themselves.

You want to fight a fire on a roof with panels during the daylight. Foam the panels. That's right, spray that same foamy stuff they spray on a chemical fire on the panels. I'm sure the output from the panels will drop dramatically even on a clear day! The output from my panels drops like a rock when I get a passing rain cloud. Even overcast days drops my panel output dramatically.

iamgeo · 09-13-13, 06:49 PM

Video of fire.
Raw Video: Fire Rips Through Dietz & Watson Building | NBC 10 Philadelphia

NeilBlanchard · 09-14-13, 12:47 PM

This is FUD. It may have happened once, but I fail to see how PV panels are causing fires. In fact, they could prevent fires by being heat shields to a fire in the nearby building, or wildfire.

jeff88 · 09-14-13, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by where2

You want to fight a fire on a roof with panels during the daylight. Foam the panels. That's right, spray that same foamy stuff they spray on a chemical fire on the panels.

I thought that was a great idea and then I saw the video, which looks like that's exactly what they did!

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

This is FUD. It may have happened once, but I fail to see how PV panels are causing fires. In fact, they could prevent fires by being heat shields to a fire in the nearby building, or wildfire.

I don't think this is FUD at all. Well, uncertainty yes, but PV is relatively new, which makes the "game plan" for FFs change. This is just a growing pain, which UL and NEC among others will find out what works best. I also don't think they are blaming PV for fires, just that they are making it more difficult to fight.
__________________________

I think a major problem is not that they cause any problems related to the fire itself, but more of an issue should a FF accidentally step on one with it's relatively smooth facade. I think that in the future, there would be laws & codes to balance FF access and solar access. Something like having a "walkway" of a certain size (say 2 feet) between strings.

jeff5may · 09-14-13, 01:50 PM

Dispatch:"5 alarm fire at the warehouse!"
Responder: "on our way."
Dispatch: "Be advised. Solar panels on the roof. Proceed with caution."
Responder: "Can I put an axe through them and pour water in the hole?"
Dispatch: "No."
Responder: "Aww shucks, now what do I do?"
Newscaster: "I'm on site at a 5-alarm fire at the warehouse. Responders are watching it burn... the fire chief is citing lack of training."

Moral of the story: better safe than sorry.

Jeff88,

Yeah, that's what we need: more laws and codes. We don't have enough already.

Exeric · 09-14-13, 06:20 PM

I have to say that the response to the subject of this thread is disappointing. I was surprised and disappointed to learn that something very good, solar photovoltaic panels creates problems during fires. Well, just because I'm disappointed, as you are all, doesn't suddenly mean the problem isn't real.

Why is it that when something isn't 100% good, maybe only 99% good, we have to rationalize in our minds that it is really 100% good after all and those dang "others" are up to no good by informing us about the problems. It kind of reminds me of grown adults acting like children and being upset that there is no Santa Clause. This kind of knee jerk reaction to bad news is all too common. Actually, society WILL have to adjust to it. There is every probability that solar will only grow and at a certain point theis firefighting problem will be the norm, not the exception. So it behooves us to prepare for that day rather than accusing the person or persons bringing this to our attention of being a grinch.

iamgeo · 09-14-13, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

This is FUD. It may have happened once, but I fail to see how PV panels are causing fires. In fact, they could prevent fires by being heat shields to a fire in the nearby building, or wildfire.

The panels did not start the fire.

09-13-13, 08:05 AM	#1
iamgeo Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lakehills, Tx Posts: 168 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Rooftop solar panels become new enemy of U.S. firefighters Here is an interesting article about the dangers of solar panels. Rooftop solar panels become new enemy of U.S. firefighters Loved by the green movement, solar panels pose a growing threat to firefighters, who may suffer electrical shocks from panels that typically cannot be turned off, said John Drengenberg, consumer safety director for Underwriters Laboratories.

09-14-13, 01:50 PM	#8
jeff5may Supreme EcoRenovator Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: elizabethtown, ky, USA Posts: 2,428 Thanks: 431 Thanked 619 Times in 517 Posts	Dispatch:"5 alarm fire at the warehouse!" Responder: "on our way." Dispatch: "Be advised. Solar panels on the roof. Proceed with caution." Responder: "Can I put an axe through them and pour water in the hole?" Dispatch: "No." Responder: "Aww shucks, now what do I do?" Newscaster: "I'm on site at a 5-alarm fire at the warehouse. Responders are watching it burn... the fire chief is citing lack of training." Moral of the story: better safe than sorry. Jeff88, Yeah, that's what we need: more laws and codes. We don't have enough already. Last edited by jeff5may; 09-14-13 at 01:57 PM..

09-13-13, 12:33 PM	#2
ATLleaf Lurking Renovator Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 16 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	anti solar news. who you think sponsored this article.

09-13-13, 01:27 PM	#3
iamgeo Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lakehills, Tx Posts: 168 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	I do not get an "anti-solar" vibe from the article. I read it as information about firefighters having to deal with something that is becoming more common.

09-13-13, 06:33 PM	#4
where2 DIY Geek Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Sunny Florida Posts: 401 Thanks: 74 Thanked 83 Times in 73 Posts	How many million candlepower are you bringing with the fire brigade that they can electrify a firefighter by shining light on the panels? Panel output is related to the intensity of the illumination directly on the panel. I did the experiment last week after the fire took place: 0.02A at 16V per panel (from a 235W monocrystalline panel) with a 50W light located an average of 7 feet from the panel. Any panel not being equally illuminated begins to act as a resistor when wired in a series string of panels... "It took 29 hours to put out the blaze". I guarantee some of that time was between sunset and sunrise, so the only source of light would have been from the responders themselves. You want to fight a fire on a roof with panels during the daylight. Foam the panels. That's right, spray that same foamy stuff they spray on a chemical fire on the panels. I'm sure the output from the panels will drop dramatically even on a clear day! The output from my panels drops like a rock when I get a passing rain cloud. Even overcast days drops my panel output dramatically.

09-13-13, 06:49 PM	#5
iamgeo Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Lakehills, Tx Posts: 168 Thanks: 4 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts	Video of fire. Raw Video: Fire Rips Through Dietz & Watson Building \| NBC 10 Philadelphia

09-14-13, 12:47 PM	#6
NeilBlanchard Journeyman EcoRenovator Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth Posts: 383 Thanks: 78 Thanked 39 Times in 32 Posts	This is FUD. It may have happened once, but I fail to see how PV panels are causing fires. In fact, they could prevent fires by being heat shields to a fire in the nearby building, or wildfire.

09-14-13, 06:20 PM	#9
Exeric Apprentice EcoRenovator Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: California Posts: 274 Thanks: 19 Thanked 37 Times in 28 Posts	I have to say that the response to the subject of this thread is disappointing. I was surprised and disappointed to learn that something very good, solar photovoltaic panels creates problems during fires. Well, just because I'm disappointed, as you are all, doesn't suddenly mean the problem isn't real. Why is it that when something isn't 100% good, maybe only 99% good, we have to rationalize in our minds that it is really 100% good after all and those dang "others" are up to no good by informing us about the problems. It kind of reminds me of grown adults acting like children and being upset that there is no Santa Clause. This kind of knee jerk reaction to bad news is all too common. Actually, society WILL have to adjust to it. There is every probability that solar will only grow and at a certain point theis firefighting problem will be the norm, not the exception. So it behooves us to prepare for that day rather than accusing the person or persons bringing this to our attention of being a grinch.