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Old 01-08-16, 09:31 AM   #21
pinballlooking
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Yes I agree with you and without the tesla coming out with a 30K EV GM would never produced the Bolt.

Tesla entry into the 30K 200 mile EV should be bigger and faster. If they can make a 30K car profitably. Given they are making the huge battery factory I bet they can do it.


Here are lots more pictures new Bolt.
2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV First Drive Review - Motor Trend

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Old 01-08-16, 11:06 AM   #22
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Pinball,

You have had your Volt for a few years and have done exceptionally well. Do you anticipate getting a Bolt with the larger range?

Here is the undercurrent (so to speak) question. Is the per watt charging efficiency of the new Bolt better than the existing Volt. I expect the new Bolt to have a larger battery, and thus longer range. Let's assume it is four times larger. But does it require four times the kWhrs to charge it?

I have been looking for charging statistics and cannot find them. I can find times on different charging levels, but I am sure the charging efficiency is there - somewhere.

I have been told that the newer batteries have far less heat generated while recharging and thus the charging efficiency has gone way up.

Also, what do you expect of the Bolt's "200 mile" range when you factor in air conditioning, radio, headlights, etc.

Lastly, do you expect the prices of the older Volts to take a nose dive with the newer Bolt?

Our daughter lives close to work (8 miles) and I am encouraging her to look at an older EV such as the Volt or Leaf.

Thanks in advance.


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Old 01-08-16, 11:35 AM   #23
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No I will not get the Bolt. I just really like EV’s I really hope the take off and more people buy them. I really like all brands EV. I think combining solar and an EV it just the coolest thing. Even with the gas prices cheaper we still save a fair amount each month.

We now have 46,689 solar power EV miles so far with a total 57,950 miles.

We live outside of town so even a 200 mile range will not be enough for us. The ideal car for us would be the new Volt but with faster charging. We take our Volt to Atlanta GA, NC and think nothing of it.

If we keep our current Volt to at least 100K EV miles it will have paid for itself in savings. I hope to have it do exactly that.

Yes it has a bigger battery. The Volt battery charges in 4 hours at 3.3 Kw charging
“we’re told that the battery pack will charge in 9 hours at 32 amps and 240 volts. With a level 2 charger, the Bolt EV can get an 80-percent charge in 60 minutes “

I used volt is such a great deal. I would have bought a used one but when I got mine they were selling for very close to the price of a new one after tax incentives. (This is not true anymore.)

If you shop around you can find a used volt for a great deal the will get even cheaper soon as the 2017 Volt hits the markets in Feb.

New Chevy Bolt info.
http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-ele...16_14547493534
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Old 01-21-16, 09:19 AM   #24
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Projected for late 2016 . Says it is a 2017 model .

Projected 200 mile range . That would work for an in town car , but not for a road car . Not in my world .

$ 37,500 - $ 7,500 tax credit ? $ 30,000 ?

That is , out of pocket , more than twice as much as the 2015 Chevy Sonic we bought last June . Even adding in TT&L . Which the $ 30,000 does not include , either .

But to be charitable , Let us say , half the cost , ignoring TT&L for both cars . So , $ 15,000 . Figuring $ 2 a gallon for gasoline , which is more than we are currently paying . That is 7,500 gallons .

Our Sonic will average some where , around 30 mpg , combined city & highway . That gives 225,000 miles . From the difference in the cost of the 2 cars .

Please verify my math . And my logic .

But , cost wise , I do not see it . Not in my world .

Both are small cars . Both are Chevrolet .

One Electric with projected 200 mile range . I wonder is that is at 75 mph ?

The other gasoline . Range unlimited , as long as you do not run out of gas stations . Which rarely happens in my world . Or money to pay for the gas . This does happen in my world . But , not too often if I had $ 15,000 in my back pocket from the savings in the cost of the car .

Well , unlimited range is not really accurate . You have to stop ever so often to change oil , check other fluids , tires , brakes , belts , hoses , etc. . And 97,500 miles , I think , to replace the timing belt , tensioner & idler pulley . And change the transmission fluid .

Of course , I have to stop every hour or two to refill my coffee cup ( to keep awake ) , use the bathroom and stretch my old muscles and loosen up the old bones .

And cost ? For the bolt ? Electricity is not free . For a quick charge , I bet you need a new 220 - 240 VAC outlet for the charger ? Not free . Does your electrical panel have space for a new 2 pole circuit breaker ? Is your existing electrical system sufficient for the new load ?

Or , the whole electrical grid ? Which we hear is becoming out of date and in need of upgrading ? ( Consider the additional load of millions of electric cars , added to the existing electrical load ? )

Granted , if you have PV , like Pinball , this may not apply completely or very little . To him .

However , for most of us , it does .

But , to me , it is more about political correctness and hype . And , do not forget , this costs us , the tax payer , $ 7,500 a car !
:-(

This is a car I help pay for . A car I do not get to drive ! :-(

If I am all wet , feel welcome to flame me . Might help dry me out ! :-)

God bless
Wyr

PS What is the going price for the Volt ?

It , I think has a auxiliary gasoline engine . This would seem to be more practical .

More so , with higher capacity battery ? Perhaps with better fast charge characteristics ?
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Old 01-21-16, 09:35 AM   #25
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Before this announcement you had to buy a tesla to get this much range. That car is what 70-100 K
Putting this car out is amazing they can do this and before any other car company did anything like this range for this price.


The new Volt is coming in Feb 2016 and it will be a 2017 car very strange.

Do not feel too bad about paying for it. It is not a tax rebate it is a tax credit. So you only get to keep your own money only if you owe it. If you do not owe it you don’t get the credit. If it was a rebate then someone that paid no taxes at all would still get it back and you and I would be paying for that.
Clearly used EV’s will work out better for a lot of people. This is the first 200 + mile lower cost EV to hit the market early adopters are always going to pay more.

Look at CA pollution and Tokyo this kind of car has a place.
Most EV charge overnight this is when the grid has the most unused capacity. So this works out very well.

Battery technology is changing fast and having car companies with EV experience is very important.

I do believe ever car owner should do the math like you did to see if a EV is right for you. They will not be right for everyone.

I should add that even if you have solar power. You will still have to plan your solar capacity to cover charging a EV based on how many miles you drive a year. If you drive a lot the gas savings will outpace the other savings. Even at todays prices.
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Old 01-21-16, 11:13 AM   #26
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Wrytwister

Let's take your numbers and do the math. You use gasoline at $2/gallon, your car at average of 30 mpg. You didn't specify a yearly mileage so let's put in 15,000 miles per year.

With those numbers, the cost of just gasoline is $1,000 per year.

Now let's compare it to the Bolt. It gets 4 miles/kWhr and let's put in the national electric average of $0.10/kWhr. Same numbers of miles driven.

The Bolt "fuel cost" is $375 per year. This is a savings of $625 per year. Assume you own the car for ten years. That is a savings of $6,250.

But the ~ $6K is actually larger than that as money saved has value. Assume a 2% growth of $ and you are up to almost $10k in effective savings over ten years.

Yes, the Bolt will cost more, but I believe the average car is now about $28,000 and a $30,000 car (after tax credit) is not much more extravagant than that average cost.

Yes, you do need a charging circuit for an EV, but oil changes, filters, scheduled engine maintenance etc for a gas fueled vehicle are far more expensive in the long run.

And the rebate for an EV is not the government's money it is YOURS. This is a tax credit that lowers the federal taxes you have already had deducted from your paycheck.

As for the electric grid, remember that most cars are parked at night when the grid is least used - and when most people will charge up an EV.

Not for everyone, but compared to the 15-50 miles per charge on the existing EC/plug in cars, the Bolt with the 200 mile range is a complete game changer.

And if you have even a modest home set of PV panels, the saving is even greater.


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Old 01-21-16, 11:55 AM   #27
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I have told of our Sonic . The other half of the story . I have driven a company pickup for , maybe , 30 years , cost free , to me . So , we only need one car ( owned by us ) for my wife .

If I had to provide for myself , a vehicle to go to work and back , maybe an electric car would be practical , as far as range . That would equate to one short range vehicle and one long range vehicle . We could take the Sonic when going on out of town trips .

But , with EV's at $ 30,000 , new , I still do not see the numbers turning out . Not for me . If they work for the rest of you , that is fine .

By the way , out of curiosity , I did some internet searching for used Volts . Found a 2013 with about 32,000 miles for a little over $ 14,000 . I think it was in Tulsa Oklahoma . But did not save the link .

I applaud the cost of EV's coming down . How does a $ 30,000 Volt or Bolt compare to the cost of the " traditional " hybrid , like my cousin's Prius ?

You all have fun and be safe . :-)

God bless
Wyr
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Old 01-21-16, 12:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehull View Post
Wrytwister

Let's take your numbers and do the math. You use gasoline at $2/gallon, your car at average of 30 mpg. You didn't specify a yearly mileage so let's put in 15,000 miles per year.

With those numbers, the cost of just gasoline is $1,000 per year.

Now let's compare it to the Bolt. It gets 4 miles/kWhr and let's put in the national electric average of $0.10/kWhr. Same numbers of miles driven.

The Bolt "fuel cost" is $375 per year. This is a savings of $625 per year. Assume you own the car for ten years. That is a savings of $6,250.

But the ~ $6K is actually larger than that as money saved has value. Assume a 2% growth of $ and you are up to almost $10k in effective savings over ten years.

Yes, the Bolt will cost more, but I believe the average car is now about $28,000 and a $30,000 car (after tax credit) is not much more extravagant than that average cost.

Yes, you do need a charging circuit for an EV, but oil changes, filters, scheduled engine maintenance etc for a gas fueled vehicle are far more expensive in the long run.

And the rebate for an EV is not the government's money it is YOURS. This is a tax credit that lowers the federal taxes you have already had deducted from your paycheck.

As for the electric grid, remember that most cars are parked at night when the grid is least used - and when most people will charge up an EV.

Not for everyone, but compared to the 15-50 miles per charge on the existing EC/plug in cars, the Bolt with the 200 mile range is a complete game changer.

And if you have even a modest home set of PV panels, the savings is even greater.


Steve

I am not saying the energy cost for our Sonic is less than for a Bolt , or even a Volt .

What I am saying is I am cheap and the $ 15,000 + cost savings in the purchase price , at $ 2 a gallon for gasoline , represents over 225,000 miles .

If you wish to pay $ 28,000 - $ 30,000 for a car , that is fine . It is your money to spend as you see best . But I have no plan to pay that much for any kind of car .

You all have fun and stay safe .

God bless
Wyr
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Old 01-21-16, 12:29 PM   #29
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I'd like to take a crack at this one, since I own a 2010 Prius and commute 39.6 round trip miles daily and my brother in law {Alan} owns a 2012 Volt and commutes ~ 64 round trip miles daily.

By driving conservatively in the Prius, my usual mpg range is between 51 and 55 mpg. Our annual road trip to Dallas this year {775 miles each way} netted just over 46 mpg. That's at 73 mph interstate and when possible following big trucks with a 1 & 1/2 second following distance, just far enough back to see the trucks mirrors.

After about a year of ownership, Alan started driving more conservatively in a sort of competition with my sister to see who could squeeze the most AER out of the Volt. In no-heater-operation weather, he manages about 52 miles AER and running the heat, range drops to as low as 25 miles on occasion.

If I drove a Volt (and excluding my road trip), I could commute about 45 weeks out of the year gas free. The worst days, I'd have to fuel the Volt (he gets right at 40 mpg of Premium gas} for maybe 15 miles of my commute. As far as the road trip, I'd drop from ~ 46 mpg of regular gas to ~40 mpg of premium gas, but that would in no way make up for the tremendous amount of money I'd save the rest of the time. Our electric rates are ~ $0.12 per kWh and I'd go through ~ $1.56 in electric daily. At present gas prices, $1.53/gallon this morning, I'd lose money compared to the Prius.

With all that said, if I needed a replacement car today, a late model used Volt would be at the very top of my list. I can't help it, the Volt is just so quick and so nice a car.
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Old 01-21-16, 12:40 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrTwister View Post

By the way , out of curiosity , I did some internet searching for used Volts . Found a 2013 with about 32,000 miles for a little over $ 14,000 . I think it was in Tulsa Oklahoma . But did not save the link .

You all have fun and be safe . :-)

God bless
Wyr
This is the sweet deal I have seen they as low a 10K then if you and add some solar to this and it is a winner. It can be a winner even without solar.

The next step is having batteries that are replaced in the cars coming to my home to store solar. they can live a long life providing my house cheap storage. I hope that day comes and maybe I cut the grid tie.

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