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Old 02-05-09, 02:49 PM   #21
groar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knowbodies View Post
Quote:
The reselling price is currently at 0.57187€/kWh, so the income for the first year should be around 1813€ (2284$ at 1,2595$/€).
Whoa! Is that number correct or is that a typo? At current exchange rates, that is 9 times what I pay per KWh (I pay $0.10 per KWh).
This isn't a typo

I'm buying electricity at the following rates :
  • 0.0673€/kWh in off peak hours (10:30 PM to 6:30 AM in my region) and
  • 0.1106€/kWh in peak hours.

I'm selling all the electricity I'm producing at the following rates (I signed my contract in Nov. 2008) :
  • 0.31193€/kWh for non-integrated installations and
  • 0.57187€/kWh for integrated installations.

Our system is integrated as it permits a faster pay back, add a real value to the house and we didn't had 25mē (225 sqft) in the garden without any shade. The pay back is important as this is a very big investment (our biggest one after the house) and we don't want to block our other projects during too long, the credit tax helps too.

The selling rates are changed every year and are based upon 2 price indexes, 1 of which is based upon energy price. The integrated rate was 0.55€/kWh 2 years ago, so it's a 2%/year increase. For all contracts signed before end of 2009, these rates are reactuated every year based upon these 2 price indexes during 20 years.
The rates for contracts signed after 2009 are unknown as the law is for the 2006-2009 period. We don't know what ERDF (who's buying my production) will do in 20 years (continue or not to buy and at which rates), but by then the installation will have been refunded (nearly twice) so free & clean electricity will be great.

These rates are high in France as all European countries will have to have a certain percentage of renewable energy in 2012 and we are late compare to other countries.

Denis.

__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 02-12-09, 11:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Also, I'm liking the weekly updates. Its interesting to see the fairly wild fluctuation in power generation. I wonder if in summer if that will tame down?
Not asked to me but as I have it, here is my raw production (in blue) since connection and the average on the last 7 days (in red) :

The 6 consecutive days at zero were the week far from home, so I couldn't note the production. I only know there has been 15.4 kWh in 6 days with 3.4 kWh the last day.
The day at near zero was the blackout day.

The summer should be more stable when there isn't any cloud. In fact the luminosity can vary a lot depending on the kind of clouds.

Even if today was a bad day (only half the forecast production for a February day), the max instantaneous power has been beaten from 1.768 kW to 1.835 kW : a hole in a cloud

Denis.
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__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 02-21-09, 04:10 PM   #23
groar
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Thanks to a simple assembly (see http://ecorenovator.org/forum/conser...nsumption.html), bought already made as I don't know how to use an iron... I will be able to monitor my PV production.

Currently I'm just testing it so I'm logging the raw data in a flat file then transcode and graph them through several scripts and the rrdtool database. Even if this assembly may be useful only on French meters, I'll post my scripts when they'll be of better quality, ie usable without having to be reverse engineered.

Here are the hourly productions (Wh) for these two days calculated from raw data :















Hours 2009-02-20 2009-02-21
07-08 0 0
08-09 12 24
09-10 57 183
10-11 283 394
11-12 803 781
12-13 1217 1159
13-14 1393 1424
14-15 1451 1457
15-16 1366 1259
16-17 1083 920
17-18 593 363
18-19 20 14
19-20 0 0


Here are the graphs for the 2 consecutive days monitored :
  • The instantaneous intensity (Amperes) :
  • The instantaneous appearing power (Volt.Amperes) :
  • The production (Wh) :


See comments in this message about the pro/cons of these data right under respective graphs.

The first day was very cold so everything was frozen during the first hours. The difference is important before 11AM. During the second day some clouds were crossing the sky, so the curves are more erratic.

I ordered a second assembly so I'll be able to monitor both production and consumption meters at same time

Denis.
__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 02-22-09, 09:19 AM   #24
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Thats very cool groar. How much do those datalogging devices cost out of curiosity? It looks like a pretty nice setup!
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Old 02-22-09, 02:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Thats very cool groar. How much do those datalogging devices cost out of curiosity? It looks like a pretty nice setup!
45€ (57.70$ at 1,2822$/€, taxes and shipping included) each for the USB version, 35€ (44.88$) each for the serial version. As there is less and less computers with serial connections, I bought the USB one. This also permits me to have several assembly, 1 for the production and 1 for the consumption in my case, as I don't have any computer with several serial connections.
In both cases, the system see the assembly as a serial device so it has to be initiated with correct parameters. When I saw data arriving at 1200 baud, it reminded me the first time I used a modem 22 years ago...
Several schemas for such an assembly are published on Internet, but I don't know how to use an iron and this one is of good quality

The specialized data recorder for my inverted costs several hundred Euros but it permits to get data for each input (panel strings) and output of each inverter it monitors. I knew that such simple assembly to get data from the meter exists. If it only permits to get data generated by the meter, it's far cheaper and enough to automatically get production (yearly, monthly, weekly, daily, hourly...).

Denis.
__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 03-03-09, 03:44 PM   #26
groar
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I'm far from home this week, but I can access my graphs so I can post this one with instantaneous consumption (HC & HP, respectively Off Peak Hours & Peek Hours) and production (PV), the sum of both (To), the cost of each and the total cost.



When the white line (consumption minus production) is under 0 then I'm producing more than I'm consuming
A negative cost means money is entering the pocket
As you can see, there has been a variable weather today.

I always have to study the best way to configure the rrdtool database (see comments in this message).

Denis.
__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 03-23-09, 04:43 PM   #27
groar
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Default Winter is gone, but summer isn't here yet

The last 8 days have been very sunny

At one side our panels have beaten all the records.
Sunset and sunrise are separated by 12h15 and this duration will increase until 21st of June. Also the sun isn't very high in the sky at midday, so the max instantaneous has been around 1850W while panels' max is 3000.

Here are the charts :

HP: Peak Hours (06h30-22h30) / HC: Off Peak Hours (22h30-06h30)

Here are the numbers :









Day Production HC Cons. HP Cons. % of Prod. vs Cons.
Mon 11179 9056 12878 50.97%
Tue 11196 10289 12283 49.60%
Wed 10883 9457 13261 47.90%
Thu 11106 11198 10142 52.04%
Fri 11682 8080 9550 66.26%
Sat 11969 10340 11175 55.63%
Sun 11987 9630 13981 50.77%
Mon 11685 9777 11017 56.19%
Total 91687 77827 94287 53.27%

Note: the Mars' average forecast is 8.5kWh/day.
The best production day is Sunday it was also the coldest day, so the panels' efficiency was higher.

At the other side this week was the hotter, so the consumption was the lowest. As I worked at home all week, and today, I opened all the shutters and let the sun heat the inside which helped a lot The consumption is 20% lower than current Mars' average and 40% lower than February's average.

But weather forecast is cloudy or rainy, and colder for next days

Denis.
__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
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Old 05-22-09, 03:24 PM   #28
groar
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Cool 1st Mwh produced

As shown in 8th post we passed the 1Mwh produced this month despite all months except 2 not far under the forecast for a total production at -17% under the forecast since end of november

Denis.
__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
groar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-09, 05:00 PM   #29
Daox
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Do you think it has to do with the heat? The angle should be better in the summer, right?
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Old 05-28-09, 04:54 AM   #30
groar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Do you think it has to do with the heat? The angle should be better in the summer, right?
By now the sun is already rather high so it will not change a lot during next month. The day duration is already 15 hours long. The longer day, around 21st of June, lasts 16 hours.

Apparently from installations at less than 50km from me, the 2009 winter production is up to 30% less than 2008 winter production. While I have the feeling that my system seams to work correctly then it's OK. Now I knew that been toward west I was going to loose 15% over the year and around 40% over the winter. Statistically during next 10 years there will be sunnier and cloudier years...

The heat do have an effect : several times I have seen 2 consecutive sunny days (so the sun angle difference can be ignored) and the hotter day is less productive by a few %. I didn't note the temperatures so I can't evaluate the effect per °C.

In fact since November the weather is really cloudy. Only during 2 months the production has been near the forecasted production :-( Lately there has been some sunny days with some small white clouds during all day long, but in the end of the afternoon there have been big dark clouds. Because my orientation toward west, this means I'm loosing much more than the same amount of clouds during the morning.
Once the clouds were so dark that in 2 minutes the production went from over 1.5kW to 0 and we had to switch on the light at 6PM while the sun set was at 8PM.

Thanks to EcoModder.com - Googlemap ME I'm realizing how high is my latitude (43.6°) : only 10 North American is higher than me.

Denis.

__________________
Earth absorbs 1.8 t CO2/head/yr, while a French generates 6.2 t CO2/yr
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  • kg saved 06/08-08/09: 1816.9+382.9 (ecodriving / 1420mi not driven) = 2199.8
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (2.66 kg/l diesel)
  • kg saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels : 187 kg/yr
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    (59.1 g/kWh)
Radioactive wastes saved by 3kWc photo-voltaic solar panels :
  • Long life (>100,000 years) : 2.85 g/yr (0.9 mg/kWh)
  • Short life (<300 years) : 31.7 g/yr (10.0 mg/kWh)
Based upon "official" French figures...
groar is offline   Reply With Quote
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