Alternative vs fossil vs nuclear power options (split from Wind Power in Spain)

[Xringer]

Originally Posted by AC_Hacker

~~~~ essentially no postings on how we are developing our own alternatives and reductions.
-AC

Here's an idea. How about we find out which political leaders would be
open to idea of the development & deployment of LFTRs (liquid fluoride thorium reactors).

And then, support those leaders with votes and donations..

They seem to be interested over in the UK..
UK Parliament Group to Study Thorium Reactors - Forbes

Or, we could support those leaders who want America to fully develop our natural gas resources.
Gas isn't a very bad way to generate electrical power, when compared to coal.

Cheap gas creating cheap power could really help the economy.
Maybe give us some time/money to get Thorium reactors on line.


American is very lucky to have so many people using gas to heat their homes.
If everyone in the northern states was burning heating oil, the demand would skyrocket the cost,
which would really kill the economy.

[AlanE]

Or look at AC's manifesto thread - he, and others, have managed to put together very inexpensive functioning GSHPs and by doing so they've pushed the energy efficiency calculus to be more cost effective. Perhaps if we can encourage more people do follow that route then manufacturers will see that there is a large market segment which is price sensitive to their products and they'll strive to deliver products which are less expensive.

I see on a number of forums that people are very interested in GSHP and when questioned there are two principal points of appeal, the first is that they like the low cost of operation and the second is that the like the efficiency of operation. What they don't like is the expense. So here we have consumers who are knowledgeable about energy efficiency and willing to adapt new technology but they walk away because the industry chain involved with GSHPs is charging too much in relation to the value that these people assign to the technology.

The point here is that if "we" can steal people away from buying turn-key systems and getting them to custom build, then that puts pressure on industry to win those types of consumers back by offering lower priced systems.

[Xringer]

Inverter Mini-Split /ASHPs have good efficiency and the cost of the hardware isn't
anywhere near the cost of an old Toyota.. It's the installation cost that turns people off.

[AlanE]

Alternative energy's shortcomings are all over the news lately with solar companies worldwide going bankrupt as they can't compete without massive government subsidies, with the latest company going bankrupt being one of Germany's largest solar companies.

Now here's the latest news with wind power in Reno, Nevada.

“These manufacturers, when they gave us the turbines, they said they were designed to be mounted on a parapet at this height, and that’s what we did,” said Jason Geddes, who runs the city of Reno’s renewable energy program. “But when we started getting actual wind flow patterns, we realized their claims were wrong.”

As first reported by the Reno Gazette-Journal, one turbine that cost the city $21,000 to install saved the city $4 on its energy bill. Overall, $416,000 worth of turbines have netted the city $2,800 in energy savings.

There's a reason that this technology has been sitting on the shelf for the last few hundred years as fossil fuels came into widespread use and no Green religious mutterings can overcome the limitations imposed by physics.

[Xringer]

"Under the demonstration programs, cities, schools, businesses and homeowners are eligible for a rebate up to the full cost of the turbine depending on a variety of factors including the system’s wattage."

I wonder if they did the same deal for PV?? Which would seem to be sticking it to the taxpayers who failed to install.

I was LOLing reading the last part of that story.. The "investing in an anemometer" quote had me cracking up..

I've seen some wind turbines installed around here.
One big one, was right at the junction of US-95 & Route 3. One day it disappeared..
Not a lot of heavy wind around here, but those things seem to have a short life span.

Our 40 year old nuke is in the news:
State, local groups launch latest salvos against Pilgrim nuclear power plant | Plymouth Daily News

A lot of folks think it's time to shut it down..

[roflwaffle]

Originally Posted by AlanE

Alternative energy's shortcomings are all over the news lately with solar companies worldwide going bankrupt as they can't compete without massive government subsidies, with the latest company going bankrupt being one of Germany's largest solar companies.

That's almost right. It should be...

Originally Posted by AlanE

Alternative energy's shortcomings are all over the news lately with solar companies worldwide going bankrupt as they can't compete with massive government subsidies, with the latest company going bankrupt being one of Germany's largest solar companies.

It doesn't take much for product dumping to undermine manufacturers in other countries.

China subsidized solar panels, US finds. Are tariffs the right response? - CSMonitor.com

[Xringer]

I remember spending abt $1,800 for a new 1978 Toyota Corolla. My wife loved it.
That was during the time Toyota was mining for return customers. (Remember those low cost trucks?)
Of course, the Japanese gov was helping them.
My Japanese friends were amazed at the price we paid.
In Japan, the same car(right side steering) was abt $1000 more.


Today, Cynthia is driving a 2003 Corolla. Reasons: Quality & price.
Now, she wants a Prius, but I'm not sold. I think a 40 mpg Kia Rio w/ ISG would be better.

Is Korea.gov subsidizing Kia, at the levels the USA is doing for GM??
Would that be cheating? Unlevel playing field? Should we blame the 'Rich'?
(Meaning me?)..

Edit:
Should have I have waited for an American company to make a good inverter ASHP,
instead of buying a cheap Sanyo Mini-split??

[randen]

We may wax on about energy programmes that are faulted. About what the government should support and don't. Money directed to fossil energy production instead of renewables. Who's paying to clean-up some of these oil spills like what had happened in the Gulf. These things have been going on for years and personally I don't what to spend my time in debating these things. The things I can change with my simple tools here at home and with some collective knowledge and support from others (eco-renovators) which can make a good impact, is time better spent.

I don't burn any more heating oil. Soon I hope to be driving an electric vehicle. Stanford Ovshinsky The inventor of the Ovonic battery that was to power the electric automobile said ("we don't need to fight (for oil)we need to invent") Now that the cost of solar PV panels seem to be at an all time low, it maybe the right time to look at that. Anyone thought about a low cost solution for an inverter. The veggie oil powered vehicles are looking good.

I like to maybe make a statement by example. Neighbours asking "are those solar panels on your house we see."? Yep! "do they make alot of electricity"? Nope! They make hot water that helps heat my house and I made them. What an hell of an idea! How do you make them.? and you know where the conversation is going from here.

There are so many things that creative people can invest time. Anyone with some experience with wind?? There are people winding their own altenators and carving their own blades. What works the best?? How big does it need to be??

I just recieved some window shakers. I think I'm going to make a ASHW tank for my brother thats burning hydro-carbons. Let talk about converting a electric hot water tank eco-renovator style.

Randen

[Xringer]

Who's paying to clean-up some of these oil spills like what had happened in the Gulf.
From what I've seen, the oil co is paying. That means their investors are taking the hit.
They can't just increase their prices, unless the other guys increase theirs.


These things have been going on for years and personally I don't what to spend my time in debating these things.

I don't want to spend my time worrying about the federal government screwing up and
wasting billions of our money, when they should only be doing what the Constitution permits them to do.
(Protect our borders etc).

That's why the role of our government is currently being debated.
In a matter of months, we will be voting in the most important elections in American history.
That vote will give us a smaller more & efficient government, or keep us
on our current path to disaster.

It's one very big fork in the road and IMHO sticking our heads in the sand in 2012 isn't a very smart thing to do.
If you don't want to debate or get involved, don't blame me when the lights go out.

As for me, I care what happens to America. It would really upset me,
if I had to watch friends and family, suddenly become so poor,
they could no longer feed themselves properly.
I know what that's like, it's not a very nice way to live.
I'm pretty sure that Americans of the current generation wouldn't like it at all.

[AC_Hacker]

Originally Posted by randen

Let talk about converting a electric hot water tank eco-renovator style.

Yes, more hot water less hot air.

-AC