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Old 09-18-10, 02:30 AM   #301
Vlad
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Originally Posted by Ron342 View Post
Vlad - Nice drill rig! Are you going to use 2" well pipe for your drill stems?? 1 1/2 is a lot lighter!
I am going to use 2" pipe. The heavier the better. You need pressure for drilling.
Plus you need water flow again the more the better. And you need torque. There is a huge difference between 2" AND 1 1/2 pipe. And just like said before I do not want to take chance.
I do not understand how people build "rigs" using 1" pipe and sell them to public and charge 4000-5000 $$$ for toys ???


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Old 09-19-10, 02:25 AM   #302
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Default Gas engine VS electric motor

It might be off topic but I will be short. I tried to use 5 HP electric motor for my rig. I only could get 600 psi of pressure @ 18 gpm flow before motor overloaded. I needed at least 1000 psi. I installed 15 HP gas engine. I just have enough 1000 psi @ 18 gpm. I am really surprised 15HP 300% more then 5HP but 1000 psi is only 67% more then 600 psi. Do I miss something? or this is another example how to make money by inflating numbers?
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Old 09-19-10, 09:52 AM   #303
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It might be off topic but I will be short. I tried to use 5 HP electric motor for my rig. I only could get 600 psi of pressure @ 18 gpm flow before motor overloaded. I needed at least 1000 psi. I installed 15 HP gas engine. I just have enough 1000 psi @ 18 gpm. I am really surprised 15HP 300% more then 5HP but 1000 psi is only 67% more then 600 psi. Do I miss something? or this is another example how to make money by inflating numbers?
It might have something to do with the friction of moving water.

IIRC, air friction (drag) on a car (or airplane) does not double
when you you double your speed, it's the square of the 1/2 speed drag.

(So, if you cut your speed in half, your drag is cut to the square root of your original drag).

I'll bet the same is true of submarine drag (submerged).

Fluids, like water and air, don't seem to react in a linear fashion..

Just my two cents.. I'm old, my mind is going.. So I'm likely wrong..

Cheers,
Rich

Edit:
Found a calculator.. http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Ca...er-Pump-HP.php

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Old 09-19-10, 01:56 PM   #304
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I am going to use 2" pipe. The heavier the better. You need pressure for drilling.
If you're going down 150 to 200 feet, you are going to need big pipe... 1.5 inch for sure, maybe 2 inch.

I used 3/4 inch, but I wasn't going very deep. In fact, I found that for drilling in sand and for the depth I was going, a shop vacuum worked out better than a mud drill.

* You better calculate how much your 150 to 200 foot drill string is going to weigh, and how you're going to lift it. Even with my small pipe, I had to wrestle it in and out by hand and that wasn't much fun, even at 17 feet.

* I had a reversible electric motor, and it came in really handy when I needed to unscrew sections of pipe. I suppose that since you're doing you're own hydrolic design, you'll put in a reverse control.

Also Vlad, have you done any kind of estimate as to how much heat loss your house will have?

This should tell you how much hydronic piping you'll need.

No less important, it will tell you the minimum amount of borehole you'll need to drill. More borehole is better, but making deep holes into the earth is a lot of work.

Best of luck,

-AC_Hacker

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Old 09-19-10, 05:16 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
It might have something to do with the friction of moving water.

IIRC, air friction (drag) on a car (or airplane) does not double
when you you double your speed, it's the square of the 1/2 speed drag.

(So, if you cut your speed in half, your drag is cut to the square root of your original drag).

I'll bet the same is true of submarine drag (submerged).

Fluids, like water and air, don't seem to react in a linear fashion..

Just my two cents.. I'm old, my mind is going.. So I'm likely wrong..

Cheers,
Rich

Edit:
Found a calculator.. Required Water Pump Horsepower Calculator
Thanks for the link. Very informative. But the point was how electric HP comparable with gas Hp. For me they must be the same because it is power. It must be some marketing BS behind. May be they used real horses when rate electric motor and use ponies when rate gas one
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Old 09-19-10, 05:20 PM   #306
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If you're going down 150 to 200 feet, you are going to need big pipe... 1.5 inch for sure, maybe 2 inch.

I used 3/4 inch, but I wasn't going very deep. In fact, I found that for drilling in sand and for the depth I was going, a shop vacuum worked out better than a mud drill.

* You better calculate how much your 150 to 200 foot drill string is going to weigh, and how you're going to lift it. Even with my small pipe, I had to wrestle it in and out by hand and that wasn't much fun, even at 17 feet.

* I had a reversible electric motor, and it came in really handy when I needed to unscrew sections of pipe. I suppose that since you're doing you're own hydrolic design, you'll put in a reverse control.

Also Vlad, have you done any kind of estimate as to how much heat loss your house will have?

This should tell you how much hydronic piping you'll need.

No less important, it will tell you the minimum amount of borehole you'll need to drill. More borehole is better, but making deep holes into the earth is a lot of work.

Best of luck,

-AC_Hacker
This is why you could not go dipper. With 3/4" pipe you can not have enough water flow to wash out cuttings. In my case I do not know the formation. On top it looks like clay but dipper might be anything. I am preparing for the worst scenario. My stem is 2" (2 3/8 OD) the bit 4". My water pump is 2" with 5 HP electric motor. The gap between stem and wall is less then 1". The water flow will blow all cuttings up.

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Old 09-19-10, 05:57 PM   #307
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Thanks for the link. Very informative. But the point was how electric HP comparable with gas Hp. For me they must be the same because it is power. It must be some marketing BS behind. May be they used real horses when rate electric motor and use ponies when rate gas one
From what I've heard about Electric cars, the rated HP of the motors
isn't a real good indicator of real EV performance.

I've noticed at Sears, their lawn mowers etc aren't rated in HP anymore.
They just give you the displacement in CCs and let you guess the HP..
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Old 09-19-10, 06:49 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
From what I've heard about Electric cars, the rated HP of the motors
isn't a real good indicator of real EV performance.

I've noticed at Sears, their lawn mowers etc aren't rated in HP anymore.
They just give you the displacement in CCs and let you guess the HP..
One of the best ones is 6.5 HP vacuum cleaner @ 110v
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Old 09-19-10, 07:35 PM   #309
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...With 3/4" pipe you can not have enough water flow to wash out cuttings...
I think you're right about that. But another issue I had was that the walls were collapsing in on the drill stem. Initially I was just using water, then I discovered the wonders of mud.

I also came to realize that where I was drilling, there was a hard-pan layer at 17 feet that holds up the water table, and that since the amount of heat I was trying to extract was small, and I could get good heat transfer from the water that was underground, I thought I could get enough heat from sixteen shallow holes.

Vlad, I think it will be a very good idea for you to talk to some local well drillers. They don't get to talk to people much about what they know, and would probably be willing to tell you what the soil formation is likely to be.

I asked local well drillers and got a tremendous amount of information that was very useful to me.

You might even find out what the average bore-hole depth is to achieve a particular amount of heating in your area.

I'm in Portland, Oregon so the heat transfer information is likely to be very similar to what it is in Vancouver, BC. We figure 175 feet to 225 feet of bore-hole-per Ton of AC. I'd guess that deep Vancouver earth is going to be somewhat cooler than here in Portland, so the bore-hole would need to be somewhat deeper (or more of them). But you should ask some well drillers, to find out how much deeper. I'd really like to know what you find out.

Regards,

AC_Hacker

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Old 09-20-10, 10:39 AM   #310
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Vlad - You're right about the 1" drills - I think they would flex around in the hole with any kind of torque and maybe break at the joints but 200' ft of 2 inch pipe is really heavy - how deep are you planning on having to go??

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