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Old 08-30-11, 09:45 PM   #41
Xringer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeyAU View Post
Sorry for spamming... The more I read the more I post =)
The link I posted above, is for a great inverter, but it is Modified sinewave, not true sinewave =( Otherwise a great product.

What I am thinking happened to those Chinese "pure sinewave" inverters, was due to those inverters been modified, not true sinewave. Thus the intermittent results.

Both of my Chinese pure sine-wave inverters were checked using an oscilloscope. They had pure symmetrical waveforms, and not MSWs.

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Old 08-30-11, 10:49 PM   #42
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yeah, diode was not a good idea, I agree.
As to pure signwave inverters... Would be interesting (but expensive if it burns I guess) to test it with something a bit more quality made.

Also, what sort of load were you running and how many batteries were available when you tested?
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Old 08-30-11, 11:14 PM   #43
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Something I read on other forums:
Quote:
I believe the grid-tie inverters, as part of their "5 minute stable grid test" (before beginning to invert) also "pulse" the grid to measure it's impedance. A small "micro grid" will fail this test. As it ramps up it's output, the "micro grid" will quickly overvoltage (that's how GT inverters work, they produce a higher voltage to feed the lower voltage grid) reset, and then restart the 5 minute stability test.
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Old 08-31-11, 11:37 AM   #44
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From what I've read about Enphase and other inverters, they sample the grid voltage,
then apply a slightly higher voltage. While running, they can still watch the voltage and current, keeping their output under their spec wattage.
But, they keep sampling the grid, to make sure it's still there and they are in sync etc..

When I used the 1200w GTI with the 2500w MSWI, the GTI worked, but it seemed to
be copying the waveform of the MSW.. Or, it just wasn't as strong and it's sinewave
got washed away by the stronger MSWI..

Here's some info on my backup system..
http://ecorenovator.org/forum/solar-...project-2.html
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Old 10-09-11, 02:43 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xringer View Post
Hello, I was able to watch your youtube movie.

In your video, I think you were charging your battery pack (from the grid) to use during off-peak hours.
I've never heard of that being a good solution to paying peak hour prices,
since charging up and then using a battery bank is very inefficient.
Way too many losses in that cycle.
When you include the price of the hardware (and periodic battery replacement), it's very expensive.


How much PV are you going to install? And how much power do you
plan to feed your off-grid appliances?

Unless you plan to use very few KW hours, going solar PV is going to be very expensive.
It's not something that most people would even consider, once they look at the cost.
Now, if you're rich, that's a different story. Since you would not care that
breaking even would take 20+ years..

Small wind turbines are pretty much a joke, when installed on a typical home site.
Location, location, Location is everything. If you don't have to hang on to
your hat while outdoors, forget it.
If you are interested, check out the Fearlessthinker videos.


As for connecting inverters to your house wiring via an outlet,
that can be dangerous.. The reason Enphase and others does not sell
a plug-in-the-outlet inverter system, is the fact that it won't pass code. (In the USA).

Lets say, you plug in a 1200w GTI into a 120vac socket (rated for 15a).
And then started plugging in loads to that circuit, until it was sucking
in 1800w from the grid, and 1200w from the GTI.
Now, you have 3,000 watts, ruining on a circuit designed for 1800w.

But, you don't see the wire heating up inside the walls,
so everything seems just fine. Until the clouds roll in..
Now, your 3,000 watt load is going to be fed by the grid.
That 25 amps is going to pop your 15A breaker..
But, if there's a problem and it sticks?
There is a good possibility you will see some smoke..

Check out this site for more info..

Got to run,
Cheers,
Rich

Hi Rich,

Sorry, I was not notified anyone responded, I assumed the thread died! But I am glad it didn't.

I have spent 53 days "off grid" this time around, the first time around was 36 days. I was turned back on for a few weeks between, and I made that video basically on a whim and as a "hybrid"

Basically I was shut down time number one by mistake, and being reasonably smart, I chose to make the best of it, and went and purchased a bunch of generic stuff to help me "get by". (I am way to stubborn to just throw money at a corporate giant rip off artist just because I am told to and threatened). Once the mistake was rectified my power was turned back on.

Mistake number two (mine this time). After being turned on with payment arrangements, I assumed I would get billed after a month of service, pay the bill and payment arrangements, and carry on. I was wrong, they sent me a bill for one week, plus payment arrangements. Well, I was not expecting a bill for one week, so the bill sat on my kitchen table unopened. Then I got another threatening letter saying I had to pay $371.00 that week "or else". So that led to my WPS boycott.

It started out where my goals were simply to make the best of the situation, have short term power backup, be able to show my friends a cool contraption, and learn a little bit about alternatives to depending on WPS (the only provider in my area).

What brought me here was trying to figure out a way to make it look as if I had power so people didn't yap yap yap yap. (I live in a fairly nice area-sometimes people pretend they don't have problems of their own).

So what I am doing now is not the cheapest, not the easiest, and not ideal, but I am only 3 months into it on a limited budget so I am starting small. Here is what I have:

1600 watt inverter generator (clearance-$350.00)
Stanley 25 amp 12v battery charger ($65.00)
4 12v 125ah deep cycle batteries (parrallel) ($300.00)
1000w pure sine wave inverter ($250.00)
45 watt 3 panel solar set (sale-$150.00)

Let me first say that I have only used the 45w solar for experimenting so far, so it is not really even being very beneficial except to maybe trickle charge my batteries for 8 hours per day. I also am NOT using any large appliances including washer/dryer, dish-washer, and stove. I have been able to use EVERYTHING else, ceiling fans, lights, tvs, WII, microwave, mini-fridge, cooking items, computers, laptops, string lights, space heaters, almost anything. So I would say I have use of 80-90% of my household.

Now, I am VERY conservative with energy even more than I used to be. I bought a killawatt meter to measure what my stuff uses. I bought a 600 watt mini skillet that works awesome for small meals, I bought an energy star smaller fridge on clearance that uses 130w max (usually on start up if it has been off a while or room temp-but I keep a bag of ice in it to slow down energy use)

I don't spend a whole lot of time at home, and also don't NEED a whole lot of energy for the things I use.

Here is my daily routine:

Wake up, fill genny, start her up, use one outlet for home use, one outlet for charging batteries. Let her run for about 3 hours while I am doing stuff around the home, shut her down and go to work. Get home from work run genny about another 3 hours feeding the home, and charging the batteries. After 10 pm, genny is turned off, and I run off the batteries using my inverter.

Now, I know some will pick this apart and find each and everything wrong or "bad" or have better ideas, which is great, that is why I am here.

The convenience of WPS would usually cost me about $150.00 per month.
The power on demand I am creating for myself is costing me about $2.50 per day and maybe $3.50 per day on a busy weekend.

On Nov. 1st, I am assuming they will automatically turn me back on as they are the only supplier so they can't refuse service. At that time, I will basically use the off peak times (10pm-7am, .07 per KWH) to charge the batteries, and use that power during peak times (1pm-7pm, .28 per KWH).

So my accomplishments in a nutshell will be:

Educating myself on other options
Saving money on utilities (one month back on grid dropped my monthly bill 50%)
Having a backup system functional and ready
Sharing the experience with others


The cons are obviously

Cost of gas (80.00 per month)
Cost of purchases (about $1200.00)
A bit of noise, but I have a cube I hide Genny in
Temporarily not using my larger appliances


Thoughts and ideas welcome
Constructive criticism welcome
Donations for solar and wind added welcome (lol)
Conversation welcome
Questions welcome

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Old 10-09-11, 02:47 PM   #46
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Sorry for rambling, that was longer than I expected. I think I covered all the details haha.
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Old 10-10-11, 10:11 PM   #47
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How much is WPS charging you per kWh? (including all the carrying charges).

Even if you getting good kW hours per gallon, you will likely only match
the cost of buying grid power. Sooner or later, it's going to cost more
per KWH using gasoline, because of breakdowns etc.

As good as you are at conservation, grid power should cost you peanuts.

We are using about 0.7 kWh on average (24/7). About 15 cents an hour.
During mild weather, most of our use is from cooking, washing and drying clothes and dishes etc.
Of course this PC is on almost all the time and sucks down a lot of watt hours..

Cheers,
Rich
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Old 10-11-11, 02:28 PM   #48
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Hello again,

Peak hours-.28 per KWH-1:00 PM to 7:00PM

Off peak hours-.7 per KWH-10:00 PM to 7:00 AM

"shoulder hours" .22 per KWH- 7:00 AM to 1:00 PM, and 7:00 PM to 10:00 PM.

"Even if you getting good kW hours per gallon, you will likely only match
the cost of buying grid power. Sooner or later, it's going to cost more
per KWH using gasoline, because of breakdowns etc."

I agree completely. At this point I really would love to expand my original project, as I believe I have accomplished pretty much all I can at this level.



Benjamin
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Old 10-11-11, 08:58 PM   #49
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Yeah, it might be time to look at going back on the grid and using conservation
to limit your power use.

PV is way too costly in most cases. But, if you can get a deal you can afford to live with,
then PV is likely the best way to get away from grid dependance.

I wish we had off-peak billing. It's almost 22 cents per KWH, 24-7 here.

I plan on using the grid for as long as it stays this cheap. If cost starts getting crazy,
I'll go with a grid-tied PV system and dump the clothes drier & plasma TV..
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Old 10-12-11, 11:28 AM   #50
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I will be going back on grid on Nov. 1st. Statement and preparations have been made. Point proven. Though I would like to add solar and wind somehow to tie in to basically cover the "constant" energy load that exists, or at least cut down on what I purchase from the grid. Ya know the fridge and sump and such. Though I bought timers to run my power hogs only during off peak times. I can also then have my batteries charge at nite, turn off the main breaker in the morning, and use my "cheap stored energy".

Quite a few companies offer "tiered pricing" but they don't advertise it, you basically have to do some investigating and ask for it. Also depends on the competition and how they are regulated.

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