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Old 05-03-12, 07:46 AM   #21
randen
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Just dreaming;

Do you think one day when the new technology in automotive is main stream like electric cars that the petro industry will give you a car just to buy their gasoline much like the cell phone companys giving you a phone for the selling us the air time??

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Old 05-03-12, 03:48 PM   #22
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Nice dream but I think that it will take a long time for the general public to pick up on electric cars. In Europe, where fuel costs are higher, they seem to be taking hold of electric cars more than we are. They also have less of the 'but I want to go 800 miles to a charge and only stop for 5 minutes' thoughts too. In Europe, Japan, and the UK you can get on a train and go somewhere. Here we have the expense of a plane, which cannot effectively be flown electrically, and we don't have trains covering our country in a way effective for decent time and cost efficient travel. With that being said, I'm still going to be driving an electric car, hopefully sometime next year.

Right now people who like the idea are waiting until they perceive that the bugs have been worked out. With hybrids this took almost a decade to happen. Not many people bought the 1st Gen Insight, the Prius, or the first Honda Civic or Accord hybrid. After the 2nd Gen Prius came out, it got noticed and now I see tons of the newest Prius on the road.

I think it will take about a decade before people who think they would be workable for them decide to 'flood the dealerships' to get one. To most people there are too many unknowns and gas prices and high initial cost of electric cars are a large part of it, each will turn their own favor.

There will be people buying gasoline on a gas price balance and utility need. There will always be people needing to drive long distances like sales drivers, mobile technicians, and cross country drivers. I've been all three of these and have commonly driven 150-200 miles in a day, lots of daily time in a car. Taxis, delivery, and couriers drive well over that. Oddly enough, the people who need to drive the farthest are at the biggest disadvantage, while the person who has a 120 mile range car with an 80 mile round trip commute is at the best advantage to owning an electric car based on the cost of driving.

We won't get free cars but there will probably be enough gas guzzlers on the road to where they are almost free. Remember the SUV and truck glut of summer 2008? I could have sold my rusty 1995 Geo Prizm for twice what I paid for it in 2006 at that time but I would have had to own some other form of transport too and buying a more efficient car would have had more margin. ...so in a way your dream may come true, but it will be in the used car market with car dealers having trouble getting rid of the guzzler glut.
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Old 05-04-12, 08:56 PM   #23
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The core problem for electric cars is that the battery technology we have is simply not good enough & not scalable.
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Old 05-05-12, 05:07 PM   #24
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Bingo. Batteries always have and do suck. Want to see some real serious development in battery technology. I remember reading a couple years ago about technology developed at MIT which used some type of solar panel which separated the hydrogen from water so it could be stored domestically for a fuel cell. We need more ideas like that.
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Old 05-05-12, 06:19 PM   #25
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The problem with hydrogen is that it does not exist by itself in nature on earth. It only exists as a compound. You need to expend some other form of energy to break the compound and pull off the hydrogen.

Several years ago, I had the opportunity to visit a research facility in UK that used Hydro, wind & solar to do this. The hydrogen was they stored & reused as needed.

Problem is that it took about 3x as much primary energy to break the bond and harvest the hydrogen. Second problem was the hydrogen storage itself. We all remember the Hindenburg. It is extremely flammable, and to get any real useable amount you need to store it under pressure, which increases the potential for disaster. The facility stored the hydrogen they separated in a secured, isolated underground WW2 bunker from the Blitz. Not very practical or scalable, IMHO.

There really is no scalable alternative to gasoline/diesel. It packs alot of energy per liter, being a liquid it is easily stored & transported.

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Old 05-05-12, 06:56 PM   #26
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This technology I am talking about is more efficient than preforming electolysis with pv generated electricity. That's it's beauty.
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Old 05-05-12, 07:04 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by S-F View Post
This technology I am talking about is more efficient than preforming electolysis with pv generated electricity. That's it's beauty.
Aside from the problems of transportation & storage; my point is that hydrogen (on earth) isn't an energy source, it is an energy storage medium, as you have to use some other primary energy to make it.

Virgin Air was funding the research facility I visited. Perhaps they will bring back Airship travel....that would be cool!

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Old 05-05-12, 07:46 PM   #28
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Oh I hear you loud and clear. The thing is most renewable power sources aren't available 24x7 in all locations. In the moments of absence we need a better way to store energy that modern batteries. I love what batteries can do but they are pretty unsophisticated technology. They are similar to contemporary automobiles in this respect.
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Old 05-05-12, 08:11 PM   #29
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Nickle Sodium batteries are now commercially available. They are being used for wind power storage. FIAMM Group

I saw a system in Ireland in the Wicklow mountains whereby a reservoir was built at the top of the mountain. During off peak times, spare wind/solar pumps water up the mountain to the storage reservoir. During peak demand, water is let out into a hydroelectric generating station. Pretty cool idea.
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Old 05-07-12, 07:29 AM   #30
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Hydro energy storage is great and very efficient. The only downside is it takes up tons of space which may or may not be an issue depending where its located.

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